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Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

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Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#91

Post by jacques_chester »

geebee wrote: post #84

This is a really interesting question, and got me thinking - maybe google's brutal interview process has a secondary purpose - to increase the allure of working at google? This reminds me of a business case I read once about the difference between Mac Donalds and Burger King. That Mac Donalds uses a batch processing method that is faster but requires a higher skill level, whereas BK uses an assembly line, and that th…

Anthropologists have noted for a long time that social groups with high barriers to entry engender greater loyalty. This behaviour occurs throughout many cultures -- from tribal rites of passage through to frat boy hazing, the nastier the experience, the stronger the bond.

I expect that brutal interviewing is no different.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#92

Post by [deleted] »

HectorRamos wrote: post #46

I interviewed for Apple a few months ago. I didn't get to the NDA signing part (I backed out because another opportunity came up during the process) but still wouldn't talk about the interviews I went through because I still hope to go back and try again someday (in the slim chance that our current venture doesn't work out).

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#93

Post by jacques_chester »

pitdesi wrote: post #60

I interviewed at Apple for a product manager role. I have an MBA, and they were an on-campus recruiter. I interviewed on campus, then they called me to tell me I was going to have a 2nd round interview in Cupertino. 2 weeks later, I haven't heard anything and I am scheduled to be in Mountain View for a GOOG interview. I email them, telling them that I'd be happy to come in and save myself the time and them the travel…

So they treat engineers and designers better than MBAs?

Oh noes!

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#95

Post by momotomo »

The NDA comments across this thread are interesting, in the company I work for we NDA on just about every single external interaction. We're an IP black hole - anything you do using company resources (including sitting interviews) is considered our IP and is controlled as such.

We often get PHD students in to do research for us, and we compensate the hell out of them - because nothing they do ever leaves the walls. They sign a series of NDA and IP related contracts up front and don't get to use any external assets internally or vice versa.

The structure of the business itself is a mess of interwoven black box systems / IP and our own work, so it gets pretty aggressive / tight lipped whenever anyone is dealing with other people / companies, even internal branches.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#96

Post by KuraFire »

reelgeek wrote: post #81
KuraFire wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. It was just difficult to find the same kind of satisfaction in your work when other parts of the product fail so spectacularly. The MobileMe launch was a widely known failure, and the effects of that (and the problems) went on for a long time. Still today, there are many (legitimate) complaints about MobileMe, and such things impact one's satisfaction quite a lot.

Well job satisfaction with a department really depends on if you're actually doing the work requested and the terms on which you left (or were terminated, right?) Not that I had a love affair with MMe at the end of my job, but that had to do with the policies that Apple employs in terms of mass communication of pre-release products, and not with the level of talent in the existing team.

Oh for sure, the teams I worked with at MMe were all super talented and fun, and I still miss them. The problems were largely with the infrastructure and lack of vision for (or understanding of, perhaps) the product itself. Mostly details I can’t go into, of course, but it was nothing to do with the level of talent in the teams.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#97

Post by funkah »

adamtj wrote: post #90
funkah wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you say nobody knows how OS X actually works? The developer documents aren't a big batch of jokes, they describe how the system works. Also take a look at "Mac OS X Internals" by Amit Singh, there's more about the inner workings of OS X there than you could ever possibly care to know.

When I say nobody, I mean no normal people. By posting here, you automatically exclude yourself from that group. Your mom doesn't know how OS X works.

Normal people aren't supposed to know OS internals, that's the whole point of UI abstractions! They have more important matters to deal with when they use a computer. OS X isn't any different from other OSs in this regard: your mom doesn't know what the registry is.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#98

Post by ecuzzillo »

seltzered wrote: post #13
iwr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Second rule of Apple: one button and no more. If you need more, just use the on-screen buttons.

I actually understood the one-button mouse idea recently. It forces software developers to try not to hide all the useful features behind right-click menus, but figure out how to consistently lead a user to where they want to go. User Story: My wifi wasn't working on my windows laptop the other day, I knew there was some nice "troubleshoot network" button, but I could not find it for the life of me every time i click…

Yeah! Gimp sucks for precisely the reason that they fall headlong into that trap.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#99

Post by brudgers »

leif wrote: post #40
cosmicray wrote: post #32

There were 3 basic periods at Apple: the beginnings (aka Steve I), the Dark Ages (roughly '85-'97), and Steve Returns. During the Dark Ages, Apple leaked internal information badly . One of the first things that Steve did upon return was try to clamp down (and fire people if necessary). He even had one of those WW-II posters "Loose lips sink ships" tacked up. And there is a certain truth to that. Competition has heat…

I think the period names you are looking for are "A New Hope", "The Board Strikes Back", and "The Return of the Jobs".

The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith.
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