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Ask HN: Developers, how do you estimate projects and write proposals?

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Re: Ask HN: Developers, how do you estimate projects and write proposals?

#91

Post by thijsvandien »

tananaev wrote: post #87

I want to share some things that I noticed over the years of doing estimations for work related to my small side project. - Discuss business problem that client is trying to solve. Often you can convince him to change requirements to make it cheaper for him, easier for you and better from technical point of view. - Know your client's expectations and attention to detail. Some clients want to solve some business probl…

How do you take the full payment upfront if you don't know yet how long it will take? Fixed price? Estimated cost with a settlement afterwards?

Re: Ask HN: Developers, how do you estimate projects and write proposals?

#92

Post by pengo »

The most reliable estimate is for work you've already done and documented. Fifteen years ago I wrote my own timesheet system where entries can be directly linked to code changes. When I have to estimate I can interrogate this to get comparable (and sometimes identical) tasks from the past.

I do have to create proposals for new clients moving into my platform but, again, I have data from previous onboarding exercises. And all estimates have the clear and repeated caveat that they're based on the stated requirements; if the requirements change, the cost and dates change too.

When I was leading a development team through the estimation process for large and complex projects, I used the Wideband Delphi process, which is essentially a process of iterative decomposition; I recommend it.

Re: Ask HN: Developers, how do you estimate projects and write proposals?

#93

Post by jaggederest »

shireboy wrote: post #76
jaggederest wrote: post #8

Somewhat heretical, but I generally don't. I usually explain that development is an iterative process, and that I generally deliver work as soon as it's done. We talk about the knobs that are available to tune the work to the goal, and how to measure goals. We talk about containing costs, and working together to deliver good value. I find that in general, estimates are rarely, if ever, accurate to any significant deg…

This sounds great. How the hell do you get customers to buy into it though? I often wind up falling into this sort of situation with old customers once they're confident in my work and fairness. But for new customers, how do you tell them "don't worry about how much this will cost or how long it will take"? How do you build that in a contract?

I personally guarantee my work. If they don't like the work, I'll refund their deposit, revert the merge(s), and be on my way. I never bill for work that doesn't satisfy the client.

Re: Ask HN: Developers, how do you estimate projects and write proposals?

#94

Post by icodemuch »

Googling it comes up with a bunch of calculators to generate time and cost of project, but I don't know how much I'd trust them.. Honestly seems like it comes down mostly to trial and error, and understanding your own process when deciding how long a project might take / cost.

Re: Ask HN: Developers, how do you estimate projects and write proposals?

#97

Post by dannyboy1101 »

mozz100 wrote: post #13

(about estimating - I don't tend to write proposals) You could have a look at https://www.estigator.com (NB it's a half-finished side project right now) I'm no longer a contractor, although I have been, and I'm frequently asked by my new employers to provide estimates for dev tasks. Trouble is, businesses/clients tend to see an estimate as a promise, or a target. From the developer's point of view it is hard to do an…

So do your own post - don't piggyback off someone else's

Re: Ask HN: Developers, how do you estimate projects and write proposals?

#98

Post by senseitit »

brianpgordon wrote: post #90
senseitit wrote: post #35

Start writing the brief/project charter with all the stakeholders to map out their expectations. Based on it, create the initial plan for the project by breaking it down into smaller tasks, grouped by task lists for better organization. What we do next is to analyze any similar projects we had in the past and how long it took to complete them, so we can estimate time budgets for new tasks. Our clients use https://pay…

Paymo looks amazing, and the price point is crazy low. I can't believe I haven't heard of this before. You don't use the time-tracking capabilities for software development though, do you? While I could see myself loving to use the tool on my own, being on a team that's required to account for every minute of time (assisted by friendly tracking software no less!) sounds horrible .

In fact we do, but more as a diagnosis tool to see how much it took us to complete a task and how to prioritize it in the future. We're not expected to account for every minute, that wouldn't be human (and productive) at all.

Re: Ask HN: Developers, how do you estimate projects and write proposals?

#99

Post by jek0 »

mozz100 wrote: post #13

(about estimating - I don't tend to write proposals) You could have a look at https://www.estigator.com (NB it's a half-finished side project right now) I'm no longer a contractor, although I have been, and I'm frequently asked by my new employers to provide estimates for dev tasks. Trouble is, businesses/clients tend to see an estimate as a promise, or a target. From the developer's point of view it is hard to do an…

I used a similar software for quite a while: https://www.getguesstimate.com/

It's a spreadsheet where each cell is a probability distribution, quite well done and easy to use.

Note: I'm not related to this service in any ways.

Re: Ask HN: Developers, how do you estimate projects and write proposals?

#100

Post by jek0 »

thomasmarcelis wrote: post #36
mozz100 wrote: post #13

(about estimating - I don't tend to write proposals) You could have a look at https://www.estigator.com (NB it's a half-finished side project right now) I'm no longer a contractor, although I have been, and I'm frequently asked by my new employers to provide estimates for dev tasks. Trouble is, businesses/clients tend to see an estimate as a promise, or a target. From the developer's point of view it is hard to do an…

I like the idea and could see myself using this. After trying the tool a bit, I liked it and had some thoughts. I think your landing page communicates well, it was pretty clear what it was going to do. The only thing I wasn't sure about is if the tool is also meant for teams larger than one. Then I would need to be able to enter different costs based on different roles, but I'm not sure if that's the target audience.…

Adding to the list of ideas:

* A flat probability distribution for "will take between X and Y" is probably wrong, a bell curve would be more accurate (where X and Y are the 95% percentile).

Another question: is it open-source? I'm sure a few people around here would be glad to hack into the code ;-)

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