Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?

#91

Post by richrichardsson » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

liftbigweights wrote: post #52

Why not retire and contribute to open source? You can set your own schedule and speak to whomever you want or no one at all. It amazes me that people in their 40s are working as software developers. Did everyone gamble their money away? 20 years in software developement is easily a few million in the bank + retirement account + home. Why not retire?

How have you arrived at that conclusion?

A few million = 3-5 million.

Even at the low end that involves having 150k spare a year, plus a house and retirement fund? You're having a laugh.

Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?

#92

Post by hinkley » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:05 PM UTC

jensv wrote: post #68

Yenderman wrote: post #56

When I was 30, people just looked at me and assumed I was a competent software engineer because I looked exactly like a very senior software engineer, and I presented myself in that way. But I was very junior, having made a recent career change. Yet they paid me like a prince, and I rose so rapidly through the ranks that I became an executive. Now I'm 50, and my company folded and I went to the curb, and am looking f…

That's insanity. What is wrong with this industry????

I've been watching Uncle Bob videos lately and he's stated in a number of them that the population of developers has doubled every 5 years basically since the beginning.

Which means that half of developers have less than 5 years experience.

We are just outnumbered by the new kids. But there also usually aren't enough of them to fill all of the seats.

Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?

#93

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

nextstep40plus wrote: post #37

alexashka wrote: post #8

It may seem to you like you're asking for advice, but may come across to others like you're complaining. We'd all prefer a better work environment, with better people and less stress, so that we can thrive and have better balance in life. You haven't mentioned anything that you're doing to get there, besides asking somebody else (HN) to hand you some sort of 'insightful' answer. The insight may very well be that give…

Actually I've been actively searching and responding to recruiters and sent spontaneous applications etc. You have no idea.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?

#94

Post by oppositelock » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

I'm in my mid forties and I've been working for pay in tech since '96, so this puts me in a similar demographic like yours.

I think you're being too picky and greatly limiting your job choices. I miss the days of private offices, but those days are over in any moderately cutting edge companies. You'll find offices in Cisco, Juniper and Oracle, you'll find open seating at Google, Facebook, and startups. WFH friendly companies generally expect you to become productive before they're ok with fill time WFH. As a senior engineer, you are expected to mentor junior engineers and participate in broad design and architecture, that's much harder to do from home. Unlike you, I have kids, which puts severe constraints on my time, and I find myself WFH quite a bit, but my company is ok with it, since I'm productive. Open offices suck, I agree, but find a coping mechanism - for me it's a noise canceling headset, a pile of music on my phone, and a very careful arrangement of whiteboards to pretend I have some privacy. I'm not doing anything strange at work, just the activity around me is distracting. It's sad, but for the time being, private offices are extinct.

As a senior engineer, you also spend more time in meetings - precisely because that's how you disseminate knowledge to other people in a corporate environment.

If you've been working for a while, you probably have deep expertise in some area, find companies which need that and are willing to pay for it. No strange startups with low salary and high equity, etc. I don't know about you, but over my career, I've made hundreds of professional connections. It's difficult to walk in the front door with grey hair for a fair interview, since in our field, people view us older folks as has-beens. Call in those former connections.

Anyhow, good luck! Try not to get stuck being too curmudgeonly.

Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?

#95

Post by Bekwnn » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:25 PM UTC

mikestew wrote: post #21

Well, Goldilocks, you’re going to have to pick which of your list you’re willing to give up to have the other. Do such jobs exist? You bet they do, I’m working a job that fits your list to the letter. I’m also making considerably less than I could. That’s fine, it was a compromise I was willing to make. But I’m not working on mobile, either. In a macro sense, though, you’re going to have to come to grips with the fac…

I work in an office with lots of dads and people in the 30-50 range. It's still not that quiet because people get along well and going over to someone's desk to discuss something happens often.

The best thing to do is make your own quiet with headphones. If your headphones don't do enough, request different ones. "I would be more productive and focused with headphones that block out peripheral distractions better." With wording that makes it a potential gain rather than a failing on your part. Most (smart) places will readily jump at buying software or hardware that will increase an engineer's productivity. Your salary is high enough that it's a no-brainer.

"I would get maybe 5% more work done with fewer distractions." So long as that's true, I'd imagine you'll get them.

Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?

#96

Post by jcadam » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:28 PM UTC

milesvp wrote: post #79

gallerdude wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course - for the better or worse, money fuels life. I'm just afraid of sticking with my first company for the rest of my life because I'm half satisfied where I'm at, when I could do much more interesting things elsewhere. Maybe I'll just be happy enough with my life that I won't feel a need to take risks. Maybe I'll be courageous enough to pursue greater net happiness.

At the end of the day life happens. Interviewing can take a tremendous amount of effort, and worse, since you generally need to hide it from your current employer, it also can feel gross emotionally. And on top of all that, the best time to interview is actually when you're generally happy with your job, and are working on projects that you like and are good for tou mentally, since you'll come across much happier and…

Also, as an employed engineer I only have so many vacation days I can burn on interviewing (esp. since I like to take an actual vacation every so often).

This usually amounts to interviewing at 2-3 companies a year given each one involves multiple rounds, travel (if out of town), etc., only to hear, yet again, that I'm not a "cultural fit." So, I reach a point each year where I'm turning away companies trying to recruit me).

Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?

#97

Post by noname120 » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:37 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #83

jensv wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's insanity. What is wrong with this industry????

Being ageist cost nothing and is hard to prove.

Of course it does cost something. If there is unjustified ageism, then the market value of older people is lower than it should be. In this case, hiring a younger person will cost you more if adjusted for output.

Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?

#98

Post by jcroll » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:40 PM UTC

Yenderman wrote: post #56

When I was 30, people just looked at me and assumed I was a competent software engineer because I looked exactly like a very senior software engineer, and I presented myself in that way. But I was very junior, having made a recent career change. Yet they paid me like a prince, and I rose so rapidly through the ranks that I became an executive. Now I'm 50, and my company folded and I went to the curb, and am looking f…

> remember what they do to engineers that are over 40.

May I ask what do you mean by this? I'm an engineer entering my late 30's, what is it exactly that I have to prepare for by the time I enter my 40s?

Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?

#99

Post by deanmoriarty » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:44 PM UTC

richrichardsson wrote: post #91

liftbigweights wrote: post #52

Why not retire and contribute to open source? You can set your own schedule and speak to whomever you want or no one at all. It amazes me that people in their 40s are working as software developers. Did everyone gamble their money away? 20 years in software developement is easily a few million in the bank + retirement account + home. Why not retire?

How have you arrived at that conclusion? A few million = 3-5 million. Even at the low end that involves having 150k spare a year, plus a house and retirement fund? You're having a laugh.

Why is that laughable?

150k spare a year, diligently invested 20 years with an overall real return rate of 5% (which should be relatively achievable with index funds, otherwise our capitalist machine is in serious trouble and it won't matter too much what my portfolio does) compound to $5.2M. And that's a real return rate so it should be protected against inflation (add a ~3% if you want to do pre-inflation calculation and see the number skyrocket to ~$7M).

In fact, that's what I've been doing myself, and I am just on track at ~Y8 like I said in my other comment, all while being an average productive software engineer in the bay. The key is to live frugally and invest in a very diversified way.

I live frugally in the bay area with ~$40k/y, I don't succumb to peer pressure of having fancy houses and cars, so for me saving ~150k/y (a bit less actually) is rather easy, and I'm lucky enough to be in a relationship with a woman who feels the exact same, and my life couldn't be any fuller: I'm not slave to material possessions, I live in a decent apartment close to work, my weekends are full of nice outdoor experiences, I work on world-class technology in the bay, and I'm building some serious wealth in the process so I can gain absolute freedom in early/mid 40s (hopefully).

I should also say, for full disclosure, that I don't plan on having kids (I have a huge extended family with tons of nephews, so that's enough for me), and I might just adopt much later in life if I'll feel the need, so that might heavily affect my savings numbers.

Math:

- Y1: $157,500.00

- Y2: $322,875.00

- Y3: $496,518.75

- Y4: $678,844.69

- Y5: $870,286.92

- Y6: $1,071,301.27

- Y7: $1,282,366.33

- Y8: $1,503,984.65

- Y9: $1,736,683.88

- Y10: $1,981,018.07

- Y11: $2,237,568.98

- Y12: $2,506,947.43

- Y13: $2,789,794.80

- Y14: $3,086,784.54

- Y15: $3,398,623.77

- Y16: $3,726,054.95

- Y17: $4,069,857.70

- Y18: $4,430,850.59

- Y19: $4,809,893.12

- Y20: $5,207,887.77

Re: Ask HN: 40+ Career Advice?

#100

Post by mehh » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:46 PM UTC

wai1234 wrote: post #10

matt_the_bass wrote: post #2

I think these jobs exist. Mine does. We’re a small company that makes high value physical items with a large software component. We encourage remote working but not remote only. I know this is not a popular view on HN, but I think there is huge value with regular irl interaction. It doesn’t need to be every day, but it does need to be regular. We also offer mostly single person offices (interns are currently 2 per ro…

"My only concern hiring older engineers is that they are stuck in a rut." Wow, better check that bias.

It is really quite simple to assess if someone is 'in a rut', even more so when they have more experience, as it becomes more obvious. Even with mid-career developers I check for this.

So "My only concern hiring older engineers is that they are stuck in a rut." doesn't come across well, anyone reading this should be very clear that to adopt that thinking when interviewing would be very lazy on your part!

Not trying to bash you personally, and I suspect you just didn't express what you meant so well :)