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Ask HN: What’s your favorite talk from 2017?

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Re: Ask HN: What’s your favorite talk from 2017?

#91

Post by youdontknowtho »

Reedx wrote: post #55
skrebbel wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually employ the same rule of thumb (although I don't know who "1488 types" are - my rule of thumb is that if a gamergater is passionately defending an opinion I default to the opposite until I learn more). But I've made an exception for Peterson. He's not as super left wing as much university staff, sure, but to call him extreme right is very far fetched. My impression, if this means anything to you, is that his…

Well, the 1488 types and the alt right are mistaken in their support. They see a professor making headlines because he's vocal about the problems with the alt left. That's all they know and they're assuming that means he's on their side (the alt left also makes this mistake). But that's absolutely not the case and is clear to anyone that actually watches his lectures.

"alt left" isn't a thing.

Re: Ask HN: What’s your favorite talk from 2017?

#92

Post by youdontknowtho »

azangru wrote: post #59
youdontknowtho wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's ok to just "ask questions" about black people being subhumans. Right? The appeal to authority is cute, though.

Are you of the opinion that some questions should not be asked (even if they can be formulated in a testable, formalized way) no matter what? Also, would you consider that it's all right to ask questions about correlations between race/ethnicity and the incidence of heart disease / hypertension / sickle-cell anemia etc., but not about correlations between race/ethnicity and IQ? (I don't have a dog in this fight, and…

I think it matters who is asking the questions.

IQ is BS and is just a stand in for implying inferiority.

Re: Ask HN: What’s your favorite talk from 2017?

#93

Post by sheepmullet »

wwweston wrote: post #50
youdontknowtho wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Jordan Peterson also famous for being a proponent of racial IQ theories? I'm really skeptical about IQ in general, but anyone popular with the far right really makes me suspicious. I'll take a look at the link you provided...But man, there are an awful lot of 1488 types that support this guy. It really makes me question where he is coming from.

[First off: JBP supporters who are downvoting the parent, come on, you know better. That's not how you do things.] > Isn't Jordan Peterson also famous for being a proponent of racial IQ theories? If he is, it's remarkable that I've been able to miss that over listening to his course lectures since 2015 on top of the more recent bible/other lectures. My personal location on the political spectrum right now is pretty p…

> It's pretty hard for me to tell how to engage Trumpism.

How about start with a list of Trump supporters concerns?

Then try and understand why they are concerned.

To force yourself to be honest try and argue in support of some of their key positions.

Re: Ask HN: What’s your favorite talk from 2017?

#94

Post by maroonblazer »

mclightning wrote: post #79
DeusExMachina wrote: post #9

Not a single talk, but a series: Jordan Peterson’s Psychological Significance of the Bible Stories. As an atheist I found his explanations extremely interesting. Peterson is a brilliant scholar and draws connections between psychology and brain structures, human evolution, and religion. I don’t believe in any trascendental being, but listening to these lectures made me understand better the psychological and moral va…

What a coincidence! I just discovered Jordan Peterson on Joe Rogan show few weeks ago and been binge watching his talks since then. I get a certain feel of skepticism every now and then whether he actually represents any fascist ideas. Not because of his talks, but rather how they are edited out of context, used in "Stupid liberal got owned by Jordan Peterson" videos with these kind of aggressive titles. That aside,…

I'd heard a lot of good things about JBP and my first experience of him was his first conversation with Sam Harris[0]. His attempt to redefine the word "truth" was frustrating and consequently I've struggled to work up the energy to listen to anything else.

[0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gdpyzwOOYY

Re: Ask HN: What’s your favorite talk from 2017?

#95

Post by sheepmullet »

azangru wrote: post #59
youdontknowtho wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's ok to just "ask questions" about black people being subhumans. Right? The appeal to authority is cute, though.

Are you of the opinion that some questions should not be asked (even if they can be formulated in a testable, formalized way) no matter what? Also, would you consider that it's all right to ask questions about correlations between race/ethnicity and the incidence of heart disease / hypertension / sickle-cell anemia etc., but not about correlations between race/ethnicity and IQ? (I don't have a dog in this fight, and…

> and I understand that IQ measurement is a very unreliable

What gives you the idea that it is unreliable?

It is one of the most consistent and reliable measurements in psychology.

> culturally predicated way of measuring intelligence

In what sense?

In the sense that it is only a good indicator for success because of the way our society is currently setup?

Quite possibly. But I don't see that as a criticism of IQ.

It is really a criticism of the disturbed individuals using "intelligence" as the key driver of human worth.

By the way that kind of thinking is more prevalent with the intellectual elite who visit hacker news than it is of the average alt-right supporter.

Re: Ask HN: What’s your favorite talk from 2017?

#96

Post by azangru »

sheepmullet wrote: post #95
azangru wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you of the opinion that some questions should not be asked (even if they can be formulated in a testable, formalized way) no matter what? Also, would you consider that it's all right to ask questions about correlations between race/ethnicity and the incidence of heart disease / hypertension / sickle-cell anemia etc., but not about correlations between race/ethnicity and IQ? (I don't have a dog in this fight, and…

> and I understand that IQ measurement is a very unreliable What gives you the idea that it is unreliable? It is one of the most consistent and reliable measurements in psychology. > culturally predicated way of measuring intelligence In what sense? In the sense that it is only a good indicator for success because of the way our society is currently setup? Quite possibly. But I don't see that as a criticism of IQ. It…

I probably phrased it poorly. On second thought, I should have said that I am aware of the opinion that IQ tests are culturally biased (due to different linguistic and cultural background of test subjects) and thus may unfairly favor some groups over others. This is a pretty common (and therefore easily googlable) opinion, whose correctness I am unqualified to judge, but can accept it as an argument worth considering.

Re: Ask HN: What’s your favorite talk from 2017?

#97

Post by azangru »

youdontknowtho wrote: post #92
azangru wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you of the opinion that some questions should not be asked (even if they can be formulated in a testable, formalized way) no matter what? Also, would you consider that it's all right to ask questions about correlations between race/ethnicity and the incidence of heart disease / hypertension / sickle-cell anemia etc., but not about correlations between race/ethnicity and IQ? (I don't have a dog in this fight, and…

I think it matters who is asking the questions. IQ is BS and is just a stand in for implying inferiority.

> I think it matters who is asking the questions.

That's unfortunate. Results of scientific inquiry should not depend on who is asking the questions.

Re: Ask HN: What’s your favorite talk from 2017?

#98

Post by Reedx »

youdontknowtho wrote: post #91
Reedx wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the 1488 types and the alt right are mistaken in their support. They see a professor making headlines because he's vocal about the problems with the alt left. That's all they know and they're assuming that means he's on their side (the alt left also makes this mistake). But that's absolutely not the case and is clear to anyone that actually watches his lectures.

"alt left" isn't a thing.

I was just using that as short hand. Illiberal Left or Regressive Left are better terms.

(though I should've said SJWs for short since that's what Peterson usually calls them in this context, IIRC)

Re: Ask HN: What’s your favorite talk from 2017?

#99

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #86
mclightning wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a coincidence! I just discovered Jordan Peterson on Joe Rogan show few weeks ago and been binge watching his talks since then. I get a certain feel of skepticism every now and then whether he actually represents any fascist ideas. Not because of his talks, but rather how they are edited out of context, used in "Stupid liberal got owned by Jordan Peterson" videos with these kind of aggressive titles. That aside,…

I might suggest to look at the full videos instead of the edits, especially if they have a clickbait title. They are usually one-hour long videos or more, I know. But that clears every doubt.

Are there copyedited transcripts or lecture notes somewhere? I'm interested in giving Peterson's ideas a fair shake, but I'm not interested in sitting through hours of him talking on YouTube. I find his style of speech confusing, and the audio quality is often pretty poor on top of that.

Re: Ask HN: What’s your favorite talk from 2017?

#100

Post by undefined1 »

maroonblazer wrote: post #94
mclightning wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a coincidence! I just discovered Jordan Peterson on Joe Rogan show few weeks ago and been binge watching his talks since then. I get a certain feel of skepticism every now and then whether he actually represents any fascist ideas. Not because of his talks, but rather how they are edited out of context, used in "Stupid liberal got owned by Jordan Peterson" videos with these kind of aggressive titles. That aside,…

I'd heard a lot of good things about JBP and my first experience of him was his first conversation with Sam Harris[0]. His attempt to redefine the word "truth" was frustrating and consequently I've struggled to work up the energy to listen to anything else. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gdpyzwOOYY

Oh man, that's unlucky. I've watched or listened to 100+ hours of Sam Harris and JBP, and that conversation was the only one I can think of where I was frustrated and felt it was a waste of time. It's really not representative.

I'd urge you to listen to their 2nd conversation or watch any JBP lecture.

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