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Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

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Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#91

Post by dizzystar »

spacecowboy_lon wrote: post #78
onion2k wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its depressing to make comparisons, but 99.9% of developers will never make half of what a specialized MD or successful lawyer or someone in finance might make. Why not make a much less depressing comparison and compare developer wages to manual labourers or retail staff? Compare a typical developer to a typical retail worker and we get way more money for way less stress. We're not at the top end of the scale, but we…

Less stress? Retail workers turn up a 9 leave at 17:30 - they dot get called up outside of work in an emergency to fix some one elses code that causing a problem.

In retail, you don't get free food / liquid. You have to stand on your feet all day. Customers are allowed to scream at you and you have to figure out how to make them happy. Bosses are more than happy to fire you because, let's be honest, there are 1,000 others that can do your job. No guarantees of a 40 hour work-week. No paid holidays, no benefits. Raises are like 25c, and that is only if the boss really likes you and you aren't in a union, shifts well past midnight on Friday and Christmas Eve... (don't care to continue)

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#92

Post by timwaagh »

gedrap wrote: post #69
timwaagh wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its not a good comparison since retail takes absolutely sero education or brains.

While I see your point (and I agree a bit), it's not exactly fair to put it this way. There are many people working in these industries who didn't have much opportunity to get decent education, etc. For example, my parents. They are from rural areas from Soviet Union, where getting higher education was not something that goes by default as it is now (which might not be a great thing given the number of people with wo…

I'm saying the job requires zero brains or education. I did not mean to imply people who work in retail have no brains or even less than average. in my country it's not really a legit career choice. it's mostly high school kids or people under 23 who do it as it's compensated below adult minimum wage. after a certain age you either get promoted or fired.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#93

Post by leftforfinance »

Hate it.

I started coding at 14 and had my first paying contract at 16. Worked in a large startup once and freelanced until 22. Even though I was making 6 figures, I was extremely unhappy and depressed with the monotony and boredom my job had become.

I was fortunate (and probably lucky) to have been able to move to finance (hedge fund) at 23.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#94

Post by DanielBMarkham »

mbrock wrote: post #79
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember being 16 and forging teacher's noted to get out of study hall to go to the library. Why? Because they had a REAL computer there! A Commodore PET! With 4K of RAM and BASIC! I came in, sat down, and thought "what do I want this machine to do that would be cool?" And so I wrote a game. Other kids loved the game enough to fight over who could play it. That was pretty cool. But I look at programming now? Damn,…

> You don't sit down and in a day or so create something totally from scratch that people love. Why not? It's up to you.

By "you", in the latter paragraphs, I mean "one" As in "one doesn't just sit down"

Apologies. Of course that's what I keep doing. Really happy about it too. That just ain't the way 99% of development happens.

ADD: The point of my OP wasn't that I hate programming, it was that programming itself has changed. It used to be a direct expression of creativity and had quite tight feedback cycles. Yes, I still code that way. But for all the other coders I see? Most of the profession is stuck inside a prison of its own making.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#95

Post by timwaagh »

sumedh wrote: post #75
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're rich to start with then you'll still end up making either your investors or your landlord rich. Do it right and you get rich too. But then you're often still perpetuating the system by then employing people who work making you rich. Start a cooperative, forget about being rich and seek the fulfillment of all its members.

You know this cooperative(aka socialism :) sounds good on paper but it does not work most of the time in real life. If someone takes a risk to build something valuable, he/she deserves to get rich.

a cooperative is usually not really about socialism. they just have members instead of shareholders. there are big banks structured this way.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#96

Post by Philipp__ »

onion2k wrote: post #46
laxatives wrote: post #20

6/10. I'm less than 3 years into my career, but I think I've worked for some of the best companies with great pay, benefits, environments, etc, including a tech giant and two startups. End of the day though, work is boring. Its always work. Your time and effort is going towards making someone else rich and their priorities are more important than your own. The only things I really look forward to are vacations and ev…

Its depressing to make comparisons, but 99.9% of developers will never make half of what a specialized MD or successful lawyer or someone in finance might make. Why not make a much less depressing comparison and compare developer wages to manual labourers or retail staff? Compare a typical developer to a typical retail worker and we get way more money for way less stress. We're not at the top end of the scale, but we…

We get to sit in comfortable offices, working on interesting projects (mostly), building things that make a difference to people, without getting dirty or abused by the public, and we're pretty well paid for it on the whole. And there's always the possibility that we might hit on an idea that returns literally billions of dollars. Or work for someone else who had that idea and walk away with literally hundreds of millions of dollars. Most people don't have that sort of opportunity.

Very well said.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#97

Post by synesso »

9/10 - Interesting problems; working remotely, to my own schedule; living in paradise; pants optional.

Prior to my current gig it was

8/10 - Interesting problems; well fitted-out office with great people to work with and coffee nearby; the opportunity to grow technical and people skills and mentor.

In the 90s I worked in public service doing accounting and marketing gigs. I'd rate those jobs about 3-4/10. So I'm pretty happy with the transition.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#98

Post by codeisawesome »

abalashov wrote: post #6

I'm not. I have been doing it since I was 9. I pulled most of the heavy-duty, hardcore all-nighters during my teenage years; I grew up writing C, and was hacking on socket code and compiling kernels when I was 12-16. So by the time I was 20, I was utterly burned out. Most of my peers discovered the crazy, hyper-caffinated, 24/7 techie life in university years, and still have a few years of this insanity left in them.…

I would sincerely, sincerely suggest to research the MISERY most of our world is in. There are 1 billion people without food or clean water. Imagine what someone with your skills can do to help? You don't need to make any money - and implementing deliverables in that scenario will only alleviate actual, real PAIN for others - not fuel the chase of more profit for someone who has hired you.

I'm sure you've probably thought of this before, but I thought I'd throw this out there anyway. Volunteer to make the lives of people trying to help people better, with software. You probably don't even need to write anything new most of the time, just know the good software from the bad and deploy it to awesome effect on operations for good across the world.

Re: Ask HN: How happy are you working as a programmer?

#100

Post by spoiler »

abalashov wrote: post #57
spoiler wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that there's something wrong with you emotionally? You sound like you're constantly under stress and even anxious about your economic survival. Those two can very effectively dig you into a slippery hole of depression which would just amplify them and you'll falling into that depression even further. It's like a loop that nearly impossible to break out of, and even when you do returning to a comfo…

1. If there are objective sources of stress (e.g. problems of economic survival), I don't perceive that to be an emotional problem. Emotional problems, as I would use the term, are problems which are strictly endogenous in nature. 2. I generally go about my business just fine and am quite functional. But since the OP asked if I'm happy per se doing software work... 3. I'd probably be happier in engineering management…

> 1. If there are objective sources of stress (e.g. problems of economic survival), I don't perceive that to be an emotional problem. Emotional problems, as I would use the term, are problems which are strictly endogenous in nature.

I meant psychological problems rather than emotional, but I feel like those two are intertwined, anyway. Sorry for the confusion.

Being burnt-out is also a type of stress. What I meant to say is that, if you're constantly under stress it can have an impact on your emotional/psychological state as well, and you shouldn't underestimate the damage psychological stress can do to your personality.

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