Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

851–860 of 1001 posts

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#851

Post by dx034 »

agagrgar wrote: post #73

I'm literally about to get fired from Google for this, possibly today (HR is calling wondering where I am). Dumb thing is, I've been working like crazy on my 20% project. I just can't stand the other one, got an NI on my first (and presumably last) review cycle so pretty much killed any chance of a transfer. I've never outright lied, though certainly hemmed and hawed. And occasionally blatantly "I haven't done anythi…

First of all, I hope you'll be alright and end up with a job you like.

But I think it's important to distinguish between cases where people hardly work but get praised for their output, and cases where the employer notices and tries to get rid of the employee. The latter case is obviously problematic. But what if Google told you they love your work even though you hardly ever work? I wouldn't see it as problematic at all in this case.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#852

Post by theshrike79 »

batmaniam wrote: post #22

The same could be asked about upper management. They earn 10x our pay, so their output is 10x more value than our work, and they work 10x harder, right? In our normal 8 hour work day, they must work 80 hours. Except a full day is 24 hours. Why is the onus always on the bottom workers to be honest? Why are we trying to feel guilty about our working hours vs how much we're paid? Because it's clear salary is not tied to…

Most upper management aren't hired because they're good at something. They're hired for who they know.

Knowing the personal number of CxO from a Fortune 500 company and being familiar enough to just call them is worth a TON of money for the whole company.

Management experience is also a plus, but it's not necessary when you have the ability to short-track yourself (and your company) straight to the people who make the decisions.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#853

Post by dx034 »

asmos7 wrote: post #196

I 100% notice when ppl are slacking - especially at the levels you mentioned. I'm a team lead - it's to much of a pain in the ass to fire people so it's easier to just keep them and give them the minimal salary increase possible. If someone is from a protected class 100% forget about firing them but I realize not all companies are like mine but I suspect a lot are.

Are you sure you notice? I don't think there's any way to tell how long a coding problem really took to solve, unless you're literally standing behind them the whole time. The same bug can sometimes be super fast to fix, sometimes take ages, depending on the ideas I have while tracking it down. No one apart from me can say if I really was as fast as I could've been.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#854

Post by greenhatman »

oceanghost wrote: post #112
ckaygusu wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Poincar%C3%A9 > He never spent a long time on a problem since he believed that the subconscious would continue working on the problem while he consciously worked on another problem. This is definitely a thing. Intellectual labor just isn't physical labor.

Most of the best ideas I've had in my career were in the shower before work. The problem is making that a regular occurrence.

But it only happens after spending a lot of time on a problem. You can also swap showering for walking.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#855

Post by dx034 »

dsr_ wrote: post #64

I've hired people like this by accident, and let them go as soon as I figured out they weren't going to change. I have not noticed them having trouble finding other jobs -- almost always at much larger companies. On the other hand, I assume that people typically have 2-4 hours of good thinking in them per day; that it takes time to learn complex systems; that a smoothly running system should not need attention every…

But you mean people who don't work and you see it in their output. What if someone works 5 hours per day but produces as much output as other team members? I understood that this is more OP's case.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#856

Post by arthur_sav »

theshrike79 wrote: post #788
mattowen_uk wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding my voice to this one. I think a lot of work 'normal people' i.e. the PMs the non-technical management, the sales people etc. really don't get how we techies work. Because they have to do 'active' work all day long to keep on top, they think everyone is like that, where in reality we are really efficient in short bursts. I can ponder a deliverable for days and then just churn it out over a few hours, only takin…

The other disconnect is that they can do their work in 30-60 minute bursts (meetings). We cannot. Some things require multiple hours of uninterrupted concentration and if my calendar looks like someone fired a shotgun filled with 30 minute meetings at it, I can't achieve that.

At my previous company, Monday was filled with meetings with 40-60min of spare time in between.

I mostly did small bug fixes or read articles because there was no way to do anything productive. I need the mental space to properly plan and execute.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#858

Post by dynamite-ready »

pas wrote: post #795
aredplug wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps quotes that make people feel bad are less likely to survive.

Just start to feel bad all the time to compensate for this bias, easy!

Pretty sure that's imposter syndrome

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#859

Post by boppo1 »

ploxiln wrote: post #717

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Have I just been incredibly lucky and every boss I have had is too incompetent to notice? Do I have imposter syndrome and I am actually a 10x developer whose laziness makes them a 1x developer? Lazy developers don't really bother me, if you do a couple hours of high-quality wor…

Author of quote?

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#860

Post by dx034 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #329

One thing many comments are missing is that you don't have a simple 1:1 relationship with your company and their backlog. You said you have a stand-up, which means you have a team. Work you don't do is work that someone else has to do. If you're literally not working at all some days but claiming you did during standup (as you said in your OP) then the work assignments must be flowing to your team members. In essence…

In none of the companies I've worked, not completing any tasks would've worked. However, it does work to not do anything for three days and finish it all on the fourth. You can always say you got stuck on one problem while you were actually just slacking off the whole time. And then I'm not sure I see the problem. If OP still produces the output without investing the same amount of hours, his peers don't suffer and shouldn't have a reason to complain.
Post reply on HN