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Ask HN: Working through burnout?

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Re: Ask HN: Working through burnout?

#81

Post by notjustanymike »

caffeine wrote: post #63

Seriously, the only practical thing that works is exercise and sleep. If you have to push through, exercise 1hr per day and sleep at least 6 hours during your ordeal. The exercise will clear your fog brain like nothing else can. Also, moderate your caffeine intake during this period - your adrenals are already shot from stress and exhaustion, no need to make it worse.

Agree 100% on the caffeine. You can get into a cycle of over-drinking coffee and ruining your sleep cycle. This kills your productivity the next day, so you drink more coffee...

Re: Ask HN: Working through burnout?

#82

Post by joeld42 »

Avoid crunch, it's not good for you, blah blah, see all the other comments. But sometimes you have to.

Try the "caf-nap". Drink a strong cup of coffee and immediately go to sleep (set an alarm for 45 mins or so). It can feel like a good 3-4 hour nap if it works.

In general, I'd say just make absolutely sure that that hard deadline is hard, and you can push yourself and recover afterward. Or if it's not really such a hard deadline, push it out long enough that you can recover.

If you are feeling foggy, work on the "grunt work" parts of the project (like lining up UI, or converting data or something that doesn't take much thinking), and when you are feeling more alert, work on the hard parts and firewall them off from sleepy you.

Don't take any drugs stronger than caffeine, even if your coworkers are.

Say to yourself, if I had to ship this literally four hours from now, what would I do? How could I fake it so that it appeared done? Do that. Then do it again. Then do it again until it's sort of really done.

Write down a priority list, not of importance but of implementation time. Cut the biggest item, no matter how important.

Look for parts that can be faked and retrofit later, with hardcoded data, textfiles, pure magic bullshit, whatever. Fake them.

Forget about quality. Once you're at this point, you've already missed your chance at that. Just get something done.

Make it a challenge, make it a war story. Don't let it happen again.

Re: Ask HN: Working through burnout?

#83

Post by cauterized »

Just responding to thank everyone for their suggestions (and support!) -- a lot of really good ideas... Almost all of the advice is applicable to one situation or another (except possibly "take drugs" -- REALLY??)

In this particular case, I think the problem was the choice to prioritize other people's needs over my own -- even my own work tasks. The combination of stress and constant interruption was causing fatigue beyond what would normally be warranted by the actual amount of time I've been spending working (a bit more than is sustainable, but only for a few days so far) and sleeping (as much as usual). After a day of being deliberately selfish, I'm in a slightly better place.

To answer some of the questions and concerns brought up:

We have a deadline based on a 3rd-party real-world event. The deadline is non-negotiable. To a certain degree, feature set/which bugs we fix are.

I'm the project manager as well as a developer, so I'm not free from blame for the tight deadline. That said, we were on track to complete the project weeks ahead of schedule until a couple of critical features were delayed by unavailability of a crucial resource (despite my protests) until way later in the schedule than should have been acceptable.

In part, I'm working so hard in order to shield the team as much as possible from the consequences of my mistakes and the above-mentioned resource allocation error, which are not their fault. I'm demanding this of myself far more than my employer is demanding it of me, because I don't want to let these people down. Including a very supportive and not-unreasonably-demanding manager. Not a firing or quitting situation!

Re: Ask HN: Working through burnout?

#84

Post by david_shaw »

pibefision wrote: post #47
segmondy wrote: post #46

For me, this is what I do and what has worked for me thus far. Mental preparation. Always have conversations with yourself about your state of mind, be your own therapist, I tell myself that I'm blessed and working 24/7 is nothing. There are folks who have a much more physical and mentally demanding jobs. There are people who are living in war zone and their job everyday is to survive, to avoid getting shot, blown to…

"be your own therapist" That's impossible. It's like being your own dentist when you have problems in your teeth.

> "be your own therapist" That's impossible. It's like being your own dentist when you have problems in your teeth.

Sometimes it's possible, and sometimes it's not.

To respond to your analogy, I would equate "checking in" with your mental state with brushing your teeth.

No, you can't perform a root canal on yourself, just like you can't bring yourself out of spiraling depression or a mental disorder -- you can, however, do some "preventive maintenance," and take care of your mental state. Seek a professional if/when you need one.

"Burnout" is a nebulous state. Some people are burned out when they've had a hard week, and others are in an intense state of panic/depression. I think these should be treated (or self-treated) accordingly.

Re: Ask HN: Working through burnout?

#85

Post by caffeine »

masukomi wrote: post #68
caffeine wrote: post #63

Seriously, the only practical thing that works is exercise and sleep. If you have to push through, exercise 1hr per day and sleep at least 6 hours during your ordeal. The exercise will clear your fog brain like nothing else can. Also, moderate your caffeine intake during this period - your adrenals are already shot from stress and exhaustion, no need to make it worse.

meh, exercise and sleep are great, and they certainly help, but sometimes the job itself is the core problem... Doesn't matter how fit and well rested you are if you're sick of doing the same thing day after day after day after day...

Agreed, but OP asks about getting the job done despite fatigue and burnout, short-term. For more general information on handling burnout long-term, I believe there are a wealth of HN posts already.

Re: Ask HN: Working through burnout?

#86

Post by caffeine »

joeld42 wrote: post #82

Avoid crunch, it's not good for you, blah blah, see all the other comments. But sometimes you have to. Try the "caf-nap". Drink a strong cup of coffee and immediately go to sleep (set an alarm for 45 mins or so). It can feel like a good 3-4 hour nap if it works. In general, I'd say just make absolutely sure that that hard deadline is hard, and you can push yourself and recover afterward. Or if it's not really such a…

> Say to yourself, if I had to ship this literally four hours from now, what would I do? How could I fake it so that it appeared done? Do that. Then do it again. Then do it again until it's sort of really done.

That is really good advice

Re: Ask HN: Working through burnout?

#87

Post by ukigumo »

Not to get all hippie on you, but have you considered mindful meditation as an approach to quiet down your mind and improve focus?

You may find that the realisation that you are becoming more focused when you need it will help your relieve the stress that's causing your burnout.

Re: Ask HN: Working through burnout?

#88

Post by Sir_Substance »

ryanthejuggler wrote: post #20
Sir_Substance wrote: post #14

Everyone's giving different answers, which is not surprising. We all have different strategies for coping with unendurable burdens. My strategy is sheer bloodymindedness, but I find I can only dredge that up so often. When I push through burnout when I know I shouldn't, I end up knackered for months. It's an effort I can really only dredge up once a year or so. Make sure you talk to your boss about this.

You burn out once a year? Is this common? I'm contemplating a venture but I'm trying to evaluate the {mental, emotional, financial} toll it will take before I do.

I was going to say "no I don't", except I've just tabulated it and found it's about a once every 18 month experience.

Re: Ask HN: Working through burnout?

#90

Post by mdpm »

Stop. You're devaluing yourself. Every step you take past those barriers, you're both throwing yourself under the bus, and showing others that your time and effort is worth less. Something you'll come to believe more and more, feeding the cycle.

It's unsustainable, on loan from your future, and soon you'll stop being able to even meet the payments on the interest. Burning out is nothing compared to the sudden stop at the end, and that elusive 'almost there' Is. Not. True.

Whatever consequences you imagine lie before you if you don't stop, simply ponder what a death in your immediate family would do to that prioritisation. It /is/ negotiable, and if it isn't then you're not working for/with the right people anyway. If that's the case you're being treated as a disposable commodity. If you're replaceable, fungible, then you're a cost to be minimised, like a printer cartridge they try squeeze the last out of.

Self isn't something you get back easily (or at all) once traded away. Just don't.

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