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Ask HN: What is “full stack” actually?

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Re: Ask HN: What is “full stack” actually?

#81

Post by bulte-rs »

NegativeK wrote: post #21
bulte-rs wrote: post #3

As far as I know, "Full Stack" is a misused term for developers who are able to do everything from devops to front-end development/ui/ux design.

I keep seeing it as "I don't have any support and am forced to do a number of things poorly." Sometimes it unfortunately comes with a gross misunderstanding of the needs of some part of the stack.

I partly agree with this. Although I'm convinced there are actually people who CAN do a lot of "this stuff" quite good; I'm convinced that most of us mere mortals would be moderate in some of these at best while struggling with the rest.

Re: Ask HN: What is “full stack” actually?

#82

Post by atmosx »

If you have the knowledge to:

1) Write an application backend (e.g. Ruby/PHP/Python/Java/ASP/JS)

2) Created a modern front-end (JS/HTML/CSS) for this application

3) Set up a VPS or go with AWS/Heroku/Whatever stack to deploy the app which means:

3.a) Set up the SQL or NoSQL database(s) 3.b) Set up the CDN for traffic control/protection/speed 3.c) Deploy a backup strategy 3.d) Write the firewall rules (if this is a VPN) and secure the host...

Well then by all means, you're a full stack developer. Some badasses use their own VPN to handle email (setting up an SMTPd daemon), write custom firewall rules, setup reverse-proxies (nginx) and use chroot, containers or jails (FreeBSD).

It's extremely hard to be good at all these, especially as the projects get larger and larger. Usually people are good either at systems administration (which is complicated and hard) or web-programming (which is complicated and hard).

Now being average on all of those, might be good for launching a startup-level MVP but I'm not sure it's going to work in the real world. There people who specialise in using specific cloud software, e.g. Amazon AWS ... If you try to work out the documentation and vocabulary it's a brand new world. I think Azure and Google might (almost) the same level of complexity for big projects.

Re: Ask HN: What is “full stack” actually?

#83

Post by atmosx »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #8

In my opinion "full stack" is what all developers actually should be. 15 years ago, it was normal that, as a developer, you know how to administer a server, know how Unix works, know how to setup/debug the database. Maybe know a bit of C. Fast forward to 2015. Lots of developers are purely frontend developers and don't know how to setup a server, or don't know how to administer the database. This is now the norm. The…

> In my opinion "full stack" is what all developers actually should be.

I've never seen guys who grok C, ASM and Perl being fascinated by JS and CSS3.

Re: Ask HN: What is “full stack” actually?

#84

Post by marssaxman »

fit2rule wrote: post #28
casion wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that not all developers work with the web, right? A lot of us actually don't even touch the web all day long, not even for fun.

Where did the parent mention the web? I happen to agree with them that developers should be able to handle any level of abstraction, at any layer. But this doesn't have to be with web technologies - not all servers are web servers.

I only hear the term "full stack" coming from people who mean "web developer" when they say "developer", forgetting that there is more to life than web-apps.

Re: Ask HN: What is “full stack” actually?

#85

Post by marssaxman »

fit2rule wrote: post #26

Full Stack in the modern context has been re-defined from what it used to be - its now more referred to in the context of web software development. But in the 80's and 90's, it used to refer to someone who could handle development at any level of a stack of OS/Framework/API's - from either building their own new API/Framework, to using it, to using others, and so on. A Full-Stack Linux developer wouldn't have any pro…

I don't recall hearing the term at all in the '80s or '90s; I first encountered it some time in the last decade, around the time people working on web sites started to use "developer" as a synonym for "web developer".

Re: Ask HN: What is “full stack” actually?

#86

Post by johan_larson »

IgorPartola wrote: post #41

I define it in practical terms: can you start from scratch and deliver and maintain a product? This is a term that's often used to describe web or mobile development, so in this context I take it as being able to do things like platform setup and maintenance, write a backend, write a front-end, do the design, etc. This term really caught on with people who develop for the web because there actually is a divide here:…

My working definition of "full-stack developer" boils down to "can write a complete web application". That requires substantial skills in the browser (HTML/CSS/JS/jQuery), server (Python/Django, perhaps), and storage layer (MySQL is a common choice).

This definition omits some things that become more important as the application becomes larger, such as cloud deployment, performance optimization, project management, and designing for reliability. But I think of those as more architect or project manager skills, rather than developer skills.

I should add that all three tiers are complicated enough to have specialists of their own. It's perfectly reasonable to be a database expert, full stop. But there seem to be a lot more opportunities for people who know the whole stack.

Re: Ask HN: What is “full stack” actually?

#87

Post by fit2rule »

marssaxman wrote: post #85
fit2rule wrote: post #26

Full Stack in the modern context has been re-defined from what it used to be - its now more referred to in the context of web software development. But in the 80's and 90's, it used to refer to someone who could handle development at any level of a stack of OS/Framework/API's - from either building their own new API/Framework, to using it, to using others, and so on. A Full-Stack Linux developer wouldn't have any pro…

I don't recall hearing the term at all in the '80s or '90s; I first encountered it some time in the last decade, around the time people working on web sites started to use "developer" as a synonym for "web developer".

I heard it in the late 80's/early 90's, referring to Unix-based developers who could write a kernel module, device driver, user space daemon, user app - in fact I think I remember it referring to OSI and POSIX at first (i.e. can develop anywhere on the POSIX/OSI stack). I think its risen to popularity in the Facebook-era, but it certainly existed as a phrase and a concept in the 80's/90's.

Re: Ask HN: What is “full stack” actually?

#88

Post by marssaxman »

fit2rule wrote: post #87
marssaxman wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't recall hearing the term at all in the '80s or '90s; I first encountered it some time in the last decade, around the time people working on web sites started to use "developer" as a synonym for "web developer".

I heard it in the late 80's/early 90's, referring to Unix-based developers who could write a kernel module, device driver, user space daemon, user app - in fact I think I remember it referring to OSI and POSIX at first (i.e. can develop anywhere on the POSIX/OSI stack). I think its risen to popularity in the Facebook-era, but it certainly existed as a phrase and a concept in the 80's/90's.

That makes sense; I had no contact with the posix world back then.
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