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Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

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Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#81
post #79

FWIW, after reading the 40 or so comments posted so far, here are some of my thoughts, observations and things I've learned after submitting the original post (in no particular order): 1. Either there are very few people on HN who can relate to this "problem" (when I put something in quotes, it sometimes means I am doing so for the sake of brevity ie. I understand the implications and various connotations of a term b…

I agree, I think most of the people who responded assumed you were talking about geek/normal socialization. But you're talking about something else. You want to experience a variety of things, and thus you have a variety of social groups, but in each case you feel like you're suppressing part of yourself. I know exactly what you are talking about. I don't think this is easy to fix. I've sort of "solved" the problem b…

> I know exactly what you are talking about. I don't think this is easy to fix. I've sort of "solved" the problem by living in the Bay Area

After doing it for so long, I've realized it's not an easy problem to deal with. I think that you have a fairly accurate interpretation of what I'm trying to convey. I'm glad you posted about how you've attempted to deal with it (even though the "fix" may just have been a pleasant side-effect of moving for another reason). I've considered relocating, but I also like my friends. So to me, this is sort of ditching them and finding other people to be around. This could of course just be me trying to rationalize away unpleasant options but knowing myself it's also an indication of the difficulty of the problem.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#82
post #74

http://www.iwillnotdie.com/why-people-dont-like-smart-people...

Much of what the author said on the two related blogs resonated with me:

http://www.iwillnotdie.com/why-smart-people-fail/ http://www.iwillnotdie.com/why-smart-people-are-unhappy/

He may have a somewhat controversial tone (I'm sure he received even more flack than I did for saying "dumbing down"), but I simply "get" what he's trying to say, because like many others I've also been there. My problem though is not so much this - it's dealing with the frustrations that go with wearing the "mask" for so long.

Reducing this issue to smart vs not smart simplifies talking about human interaction, but it can also alienate many people. But one also has to consider: Is the mere fact that one considers things to this depth a symptom of the curse of the foreigner in Rome? Would I be less frustrated if I started caring less about what others think? Is it possible to go through life happy as a foreigner in Rome? I tend to think of these kinds of people end up as miserable old lonely men (or at least that's what the media would have one believe).

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#83
You sound like you're torn between Niles & Frasier Crane and the cast of Friends!

FWIW, I have a LOT of different interests, and I get really cheesed off by one group of nerdy friends who are anxious to put down anything popular but am similarly frustrated by normal people who won't branch out of their comfort zone and look at the world through a different lens.

I'm not a computer buff by trade or training but I suspect this is a problem that has nothing to do with intelligence. It often seems to have more to do with not wanting to admit to knowing/not knowing about something so as not to appear too 'different'. I think it's a rut one can get out of through travelling/ moving/working somewhere new, because being suddenly forced to make new friends as an adult can encourage honesty and a re-evaluation of what is important.

Good luck, however you choose to tackle this problem.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the better description you're looking for is, "The conversations aren't as rigorous as I'd like." But I'm confused. Do you really expect meaty, stimulating conversation when you go clubbing? Also, you seem to be going out of your way to bring up the strip club. If you don't like it don't go.

> I think the better description you're looking for is, "The conversations aren't as rigorous as I'd like." It's not that either, but then again it could be. We all have different ways of interpreting this. That's why the most important part of my post was trying to find people who could relate to what I'm talking about. > But I'm confused. Do you really expect meaty, stimulating conversation when you go clubbing? No…

> That's why the most important part of my post was trying to find people who could relate to what I'm talking about.

Right, but you still have to talk about it carefully. People here definitely got obsessed with your dumbing down comment. It's probably good to avoid words like smart or dumb since they can end up being a distraction.

> How much value was there for me in explaining what I meant by "lounge in a club"?

Explaining the lounge area was very helpful to me. The lounge areas in the places I've been to aren't really separate from the main part -- so not quiet or intimate like what you're describing. Your comments about conversation there make more sense now.

> I don't understand why you think that, or why you think the problem I have is with the strip club.

I see only two comments that mention it besides your own, and your original post has it inserted as a distracting aside. I was just observing, not trying to confront you. I get that you're trying to give an encompassing view of your social circle.

But then if it is supposed to illustrate patterns of behavior, does it mean you regularly do things with your social group that you don't enjoy?

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#85
As Richard Rusczyk says, "If ever you are by far the best, or the most interested, student in a classroom, then you should find another classroom."

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Resources/AoPS_R_A_Calcul...

That generalizes to how to live in adult life. Seek out the smartest people you can find, and spend time interacting with them.

This, of course, is what I like about HN. My happiest time of social life growing up was two years in junior high in Minnesota in which I was "tracked" with mostly very bright fellow students. Most of the rest of my life I've been trying to regain a social circle like that. Now I'm most of the way back to where I was almost four decades ago, with lots of friends who are plainly very smart, who get my jokes, and who understand my vocabulary.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#86
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, I think most of the people who responded assumed you were talking about geek/normal socialization. But you're talking about something else. You want to experience a variety of things, and thus you have a variety of social groups, but in each case you feel like you're suppressing part of yourself. I know exactly what you are talking about. I don't think this is easy to fix. I've sort of "solved" the problem b…

> I know exactly what you are talking about. I don't think this is easy to fix. I've sort of "solved" the problem by living in the Bay Area After doing it for so long, I've realized it's not an easy problem to deal with. I think that you have a fairly accurate interpretation of what I'm trying to convey. I'm glad you posted about how you've attempted to deal with it (even though the "fix" may just have been a pleasan…

Yeah. Also, be careful what you wish for. The Bay Area is great, but also an echo chamber for the kind of people who live in the Bay Area. Maybe it's a good thing that you bridge various worlds that don't normally communicate. You can be an 'interesting' person in all of them.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#87
Re: The engineering dance thing.

I find that technical people, developers/hackers etc. can often be incredibly annoying when they do this. Many also have a tendency to call other developers idiots or constantly talk about their skills. It's really not a great way to make people think highly of you, either professionally or socially.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the better description you're looking for is, "The conversations aren't as rigorous as I'd like." It's not that either, but then again it could be. We all have different ways of interpreting this. That's why the most important part of my post was trying to find people who could relate to what I'm talking about. > But I'm confused. Do you really expect meaty, stimulating conversation when you go clubbing? No…

> That's why the most important part of my post was trying to find people who could relate to what I'm talking about. Right, but you still have to talk about it carefully. People here definitely got obsessed with your dumbing down comment. It's probably good to avoid words like smart or dumb since they can end up being a distraction. > How much value was there for me in explaining what I meant by "lounge in a club"?…

> But then if it is supposed to illustrate patterns of behavior, does it mean you do things with your social group that you don't enjoy?

Yes, as they do with me. Compromise is part of what builds good relationships.

To me, it's about weighing the pros and cons of situation.

eg.

Pros:

I'll be with my friends and we usually have a good time together

Cons:

I don't enjoy visiting strip clubs

If I don't go with them, what do I do? Stay at home, go out on my own, or hook up with other people? At the time none of these were desirable.

The cons outweighed the pros, so I decided to join them. This is generally how I tackle things.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#89
look into "INTP" personality type if you haven't already.

the way i see it is that between people, we want to communicate ideas. in order to communicate we have to meet at a shared context, and shared semiotics. the way i'm writing this is not how i would talk to someone at work. the way i talk at work is not how i would talk to my mom. the way i talk to my mom is not how i would talk with my housemate. the way i talk about a problem with a designer is not the way i talk about a problem with an engineer. the way i talk about a problem with an engineer is not the way i talk when discussing philosophy.

if you value comprehension, and you value growth, then you are in the minority of our society - especially when it comes to comprehension. it's easier to find people trying to win than to find people trying to comprehend. since you value learning and growing, you will accelerate as will others like you, beyond the understandings common in our society. your context will diverge more so from shared contexts, simply because you are internally growing. don't fret - just communicate what needs to be communicated. some people may not be interested in some of the things your interested in, and others will be. run into brilliant people with shared interests, sure it might be exciting, but you'll still need to communicate - you'll still need to meet with words, body language, and smiles - you're experience is entirely your own. we are all alone, together.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#90
A few years ago, I discovered there actually are circles that are truly both very smart, and totally cool.

For example in Toronto, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumkidz

Previously I thought this was impossible, and I was didnt even dare hope to find it.

But, Im no longer in TO, and yes, its hard once again to find. But I know such people are out there!

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