I've gone everywhere from CTO, Founder, staff engineer, product architect ... in totally non-linear fashions, sometimes in order, then in reverse ... been at this almost 30 years. Don't worry abut it, just do what you want.
Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?
81–90 of 152 posts
Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?
#82> my current job has a very strong “up or out” mentality that I’m starting to push up against. And most other places I’ve worked at or talk about with friends seem to have similar attitudes toward career progression
Hmm, is this why must software products have tons of usability-destroying bugs that never get fixed, even while continually launching new features?
Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?
#83I had a weird career, waiter => build startup => sold => Google 7 years => left.
The bigs used to be great for this: the two problems a Googler manager has with talent management is A) motivating people who won't do work because they know they won't advance B) trying to placate people who work hard, when there's no significant reward for it, for years, and social mores mean there's no polite way to explain why.
Past that, and assuming you can just get a job wherever, I'd wonder why you want to actively not advance. You can't really say this to a manager with a straight face without getting "tsk tsk'd", even when everyone knows there's no real room for it. It'd get dissembled into not having a growth mindset or whatever if its actively voiced.
If you're looking for stability and WLB, my understanding of Amazon/FB from Googlers was they were somewhat ruthless in turning people over, and that's certainly gotten worse. And now it's happening at Google too, there's a defacto quota of ~10% of people who need to get hassled early. And it wasn't fair or rational necessarily who was.
Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?
#84Most companies have a similar profile. There's an up-or-out phase and then there's some level where it no longer matters. Because titles are all over the place it's hard to predict what that level is. But it roughly translates to the point where your value exceeds your cost. For most software companies this is usually the point where one is a very capable IC, able to work independently, as well as able to guide & mentor more junior employees. YMMV
It will never be the case that it's okay to coast for a long time at the lower/middle levels because in the grand scheme of things you're not worth the hassle for them.
Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?
#85Anecdotally, Netflix is very "settle into your groove and get really good at your job" if you want it to be. There are of course folks that climb the ladder, but I also work with several L5's (Senior engineers) who have been at that level for years. Some of this of course has to do with the introduction of levels being quite recent (within the last 4 years or so) but the majority of folks I know that have been here f…
They introduced levels 2.5 years ago. Almost all existing engineers were converted to L5 at that time (I was told ~90% during a recent job interview there). A very small number of L6s were created when they introduced levels (something like 20 according to my interviewer). L4s are post-9/2022 hires. All of which is to say, the fact that most people are L5s, including people who've been there for a long time, is due e…
What about L1, L2, L3 then ?
Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a cat owner I'd suggest that dog food is likely closer to a complete diet for humans. Cats are obligate carnivores, dogs are omnivores like us. Also, most cat food smells pretty bad
OTOH, if you're barely able to afford food, if they're the same cost, high protein might be a good thing.
Rice and beans are cheap and combining them, your body can use the protein.
Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?
#87In the U.S., maybe somewhere like Naval Undersea Warfare Centers (at least when I worked there). The problems they're solving are pretty constant, but they go very deep technically for those who are interested. There's a very long learning curve compared to most private sector jobs, but you can power through it in proportion to your personal ambitions. Downsides: (1) You're a political punching bag for 50% of the can…
I interviewed at NUWC Keyport when I was in college. Seemed like an interesting place to work but they didn’t have any real programming roles at the time. My interviewer asked if I had experience with UML and talked about how he wanted someone to document and optimize their assembly line procedures. I’m not sure he knew exactly what he wanted.
Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?
#88> my current job has a very strong “up or out” mentality that I’m starting to push up against. And most other places I’ve worked at or talk about with friends seem to have similar attitudes toward career progression Hmm, is this why must software products have tons of usability-destroying bugs that never get fixed, even while continually launching new features?
Spot on product managers are constantly pushing for new features (for their growth) so quality goes on the wayside.
Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?
#89Try to think of this from the organisation's point of view. The up or out culture serves two purposes. It helps ensure senior roles go to people they know well and trust, and it ensures there is room for other ambitious and motivated people to move up. In other words the whole objective is to have a well run organisation with motivated employees. The objective is definitely not to force hard working and talented peop…
Yes. Once I was leaving a managerial role for a lateral transfer and helped choose my replacement. One candidate was a high performing individual contributor. They felt obligated to apply for the job, but didn't really want it. They liked their current job and did it well. They were assured that they're welcome to continue as an IC at their current level as long as they continue to perform at their current level.
Worked out great. They have their role and continue to enjoy it and perform well. The managerial role went to someone with clear upward intention, who is also enjoying it and performing well.
Re: Ask HN: Any jobs that don't force you to always be advancing career wise?
#90In the U.S., maybe somewhere like Naval Undersea Warfare Centers (at least when I worked there). The problems they're solving are pretty constant, but they go very deep technically for those who are interested. There's a very long learning curve compared to most private sector jobs, but you can power through it in proportion to your personal ambitions. Downsides: (1) You're a political punching bag for 50% of the can…
"National defense" as defense of nation's interests. Politicians can phrase it however they like. Pay is meh, benefits are pretty good if you locked into 0.4% FERS deduction prior 2013, that's like 16% annualized compounding... health insurance is getting less and less attractive by the year. Salary growth is also slow and next few years probably gonna be a big fat zero and eaten alive by inflation. Like OP said, it does feel like turning into a rock solid pillar and getting forgotten.