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Ask HN: How would you launch a privacy-first, Instagram-like social network?

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Re: Ask HN: How would you launch a privacy-first, Instagram-like social network?

#81

I think you are worried about the wrong problem. Forget about the influencers for a moment - what will your source of revenue be if you don't have an ad network? Users are the content on social networks. If you charge them to join, you will have fewer users and less content on the network. That reduces the value so you can't charge as much, and the cycle continues.

This is a remarkably consistent failure of imagination in an otherwise incredibly imaginative space. In the time I've been alive we've gone from bulky PC and monitor combos that took up entire desks to light-as-a-feather laptops that pack thousands of times more power and storage space, we've gone from me working for a day to figure out a CD burner to get all of my data on my computer backed up to a disk (about 550 M…

> We need something else.

Have you looked into ATProto? (by Bluesky)

1. It separates the data, app, algo, and moderation into pluggable modules

2. You can build any app on top of it, all app user data ends up in the same user database (sqlite db per user)

3. They supposedly have a non-ad monetization plan, but haven't publicly announced what it is yet

Re: Ask HN: How would you launch a privacy-first, Instagram-like social network?

#82
What you are describing sounds an awful lot like Snapchat. I would honestly just download Snap and tour their App since they have already come up with solutions to all of these problems. They aren’t always great solutions, and snap is still mostly an ads platform for revenue, but the core product gets right to this issue.

Re: Ask HN: How would you launch a privacy-first, Instagram-like social network?

#83
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By privacy-first, I mean that I won’t segment users based on their behavior for any purpose. There will be no ads on the network. I hadn’t yet thought through specifics like “friend-post” or “public-post” modes, or whether non-users would be able to view public posts without an account.

>> segment users based on their behavior I think you are saying you will use a chronological-feed instead of an algorithic-feed (where you sort, filter, promote to be most-relevant) to display posts.

I much prefer a chronological feed, but they don't work in reality. All current social media platforms rely on their algorithm for discovery.

Without it you may have a very large social media site on paper, but each user only interacts with a small subset which defeats the point of a social media platform. You've effectively created a group chat service that technically doesn't prevent others from joining in, it just doesn't let others find the conversation they are interested in

Re: Ask HN: How would you launch a privacy-first, Instagram-like social network?

#84
> I'm planning to launch a privacy-first social network in 2025, inspired by platforms like Instagram

Brain dumping my thoughts in this space (actively working in it), sorry if it is disorganized.

I would start by deconstructing your problem statement more and focusing on _why_ you want to build this; be very explicit and precise about your thesis. After getting a clear and conscise articulation of your why, your thesis, go talk to people about it. Randos at the bar, the gym, your church, school. Your social network, if successful, will be used by these people. Find places to kick up conversations with strangers. Ask them what they do. Eventually they'll ask you what you do in return. Use that as an opportunity to pitch your "why" and see if they get excited.

If random people aren't getting excited, your why isn't compelling.

If you are wanting to imitate Instagram, you are building a _social media_ application not a _social networking_ application. Social networks are focused on community building (creating social connections). Social media is a variable rate reward machine (casino) that hypes up randos on the internet in an attempt to make them famous in front of other randos on the internet. Social media algorithms optimize for things like "engagement" and "view time" - is this compatible with your current thesis? If not, what changes do you need to make to the Instagram experience to make it compatible? If it is privacy first, how will you feed your algorithm?

You also need to solve the game theory of the platform. Its more than just revenue, though getting people to pay you for this is a big part. The game theory includes moderation, lawfare, personal morals, etc. How are you approaching _sharing and storing content_? Are you going to slot a server into a server rack? You'll have to pay for that of course. But you'll also have nation states and other power seeking actors knocking on your door about your thesis and asking for control/influence over that server- what are you going to tell them? How are you going to align incentives so that your thesis doesn't fail under the pressure from U.S. clandestine operations? Will you be compelled by law at some point to abandon your thesis? Will you be compelled by your own morals to abandon it? How will you handle that?

When it comes to infrastructure costs, the more you personally host the more revenue you'll need to keep the thing afloat. It doesn't matter if you are a non-profit, a public benefit non-profit, a for-profit entity... someone will have to give you money to pay for storing and serving all that content.

The more you can rely on the infrastructure provided by your users (their internet, their compute, their storage) - the cheaper it will be to run. The more you rely on your users infrastructure, the fewer centralized points of control their will be for power seeking actors to try to capture.

This is getting rambley, sorry. I've spoken on this before (in the context of building peer-to-peer social networking experiences) if interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeZgCy3ub6M

Re: Ask HN: How would you launch a privacy-first, Instagram-like social network?

#85
Thank you for your post. I've been working on a similar concept but for super close-knit groups, think families, college friends, etc. (less than 10 people/group). I was going to incorporate some mechanisms to encourage posting since if no one posts, it'll die.

I felt like this is a problem I have. I want to hear about my friends’ lives, but no one posts on Facebook/Instagram anymore. And my feed is now constantly influencers.

However, after hearing all these comments/experiences, I will be pivoting! Thanks you for your post and saving me a headache.

Re: Ask HN: How would you launch a privacy-first, Instagram-like social network?

#87
post #15

There exists a federated Instagram clone in case you want to look at previous attempts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixelfed

The iOS app has been in testflight forever and the author moved his focus to Loops. I, for one, don't have any faith in Pixelfed or its offshoots.

Re: Ask HN: How would you launch a privacy-first, Instagram-like social network?

#88
I wouldn't bother. Nobody really cares about privacy-first. The HN audience is one that you might expect to care strongly about privacy, and yet even here many still prefer to use the Android/Google ecosystem because it's more customizable and Not Apple, over the highly private Apple ecosystem. Privacy just isn't that many people's first concern.

Re: Ask HN: How would you launch a privacy-first, Instagram-like social network?

#89
post #88

I wouldn't bother. Nobody really cares about privacy-first. The HN audience is one that you might expect to care strongly about privacy, and yet even here many still prefer to use the Android/Google ecosystem because it's more customizable and Not Apple, over the highly private Apple ecosystem. Privacy just isn't that many people's first concern.

Ello was an attempt at something like this, but it shut down last year

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ello_(social_network)

Re: Ask HN: How would you launch a privacy-first, Instagram-like social network?

#90

Why would you build it? That isn't being snarky, it is the question you need to answer. Why would people join it? What problem are you solving for them? Why are celebrities and influencers on those platforms to begin with? When you can detail out those answers, those answers tell you what you need to do to launch. You have to match the table stakes of existing platforms, which means you need to know not only what tho…

Theres a HN post not very old (less than a year. Maybe less than 6mo.) of this concept... it was even a "public benefit corporation," but it quickly went off the rails into a bad imitation. The reality is- real users won't pay for these services and the only entities that will pay. Well, they're paying for ads with the knockoffs because (ironically) instagram et. al. won't run their ads because they're "bad for users…

I would shift a lot of charitable giving to a non-profit privacy first site that is Facebook or Instagram which is focused only on sharing photos and text with friends, family and my local community. That excludes news, celebs, influencers, et al

I can't imagine that there wouldn't be enough people like me to support an inexpensive (compared to FB, etc) endeavor like this. If it still isn't enough, have local only ads that are not tracked and are served right from the site (and give users control over the type of ads they want to see). I wouldn't mind a couple unobtrusive ads for local restaurants, services, etc.

Maybe I am underestimating the cost here, but I also think that HN generally underestimates the social angst over the massive invasion of privacy by corporations. 90% of my non-tech friends and family have asked me how bad it is and how they can avoid it. Of course I just shrug and say you can't...

p.s. can you please link the HN discussion you referenced?

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