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Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

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Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#81

Post by lotsofpulp »

brtkdotse wrote: post #71
ryandrake wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But man, a lot of the people out there absolutely still do not grok negotiating. Unless you have some kind of very unique skill or you have other offers and the company really, really wants you, how exactly are you supposed to negotiate? Every comp negotiation I've ever had with a company has gone kind of like this: [Company]: Here's your offer for $X. [Me]: I'd like $Y. [Company]: Your offer is for $X. [Me]: Well,…

Negotiation start and stop with BATNA - Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement. The employers BATNA is they go to the pool of 35 other candidates. Yours is you go back to your job. If your job hunting first when your sick to death of your job, your BATNA isn’t very strong. If this is your only offer, your BATNA isn’t very strong. If you’re one paycheck away from being out of the street, your BATNA isn’t very strong…

This comment reads the same to me replacing “BATNA” with “alternative”.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#83

Post by c2h5oh »

cutemonster wrote: post #82
Seattle3503 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone got numbers?

Maybe they don't live in the same place or work with the same things, or one is remote the other isn't

I'm at a disadvantage here: remote only + moved out of NA.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#84

Post by ffsm8 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #81
brtkdotse wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Negotiation start and stop with BATNA - Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement. The employers BATNA is they go to the pool of 35 other candidates. Yours is you go back to your job. If your job hunting first when your sick to death of your job, your BATNA isn’t very strong. If this is your only offer, your BATNA isn’t very strong. If you’re one paycheck away from being out of the street, your BATNA isn’t very strong…

This comment reads the same to me replacing “BATNA” with “alternative”.

Obviously, as the other letters of the acronym only describe what kind of alternative it is.

I think a better way to phrase your critique would be: "acronyms harm the flow of your text - they're best used sparingly"

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#85

Post by gadders »

Here is one top tip from the Chris Voss book: Don't ask for a round number. If you ask for a more precise number it sounds like you have done more research etc.

EG Not: "I've looked at my finances and similar roles, and I need $130,000 for me to take the role."

Instead: "I've looked at my finances and similar roles, and I need $133,700 for me to take the role."

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#86

Post by patatino »

I usually did this in the past, and it has worked every time so far (four times). Not in the US, this from Switzerland.

I think of a number I want to earn in the new job. For example, if I would currently make 100k, I say I currently make 115k in my current role, and then they offer 120k. I accept, done.

I did this after a bad experience. Made-up numbers. They offer me 80k, I already make 90k, I say I already make more. They ask how much, I say 90k, they say we can match that and one more week of vacations. I give them a pass, they ask why, I say I got another offer for 110k, they say we could have given you 110k too.

If they are allowed to lie, I can too.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#87

Post by hhdhdbdb »

gadders wrote: post #85

Here is one top tip from the Chris Voss book: Don't ask for a round number. If you ask for a more precise number it sounds like you have done more research etc. EG Not: "I've looked at my finances and similar roles, and I need $130,000 for me to take the role." Instead: "I've looked at my finances and similar roles, and I need $133,700 for me to take the role."

Yeah. Nah that makes you sound silly (at least for software jobs) unless there is a good reason for it, like currency conversions or peverse tax incentives.

There is a tiny chance that asking for 133700 might get a smile at a smaller tech focused company though.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#88

Post by hhdhdbdb »

ryandrake wrote: post #51
chomp wrote: post #15

Ok yes this guide is fine, a lot of things are up for negotiation, and I think it’s a lot more widely known these days to negotiate for stuff. But man, a lot of the people out there absolutely still do not grok negotiating. They know it’s something you’re supposed to do, but they will try and negotiate things that are not negotiable (like making it a hard ask for extra contributions per paycheck for healthcare to mat…

> But man, a lot of the people out there absolutely still do not grok negotiating. Unless you have some kind of very unique skill or you have other offers and the company really, really wants you, how exactly are you supposed to negotiate? Every comp negotiation I've ever had with a company has gone kind of like this: [Company]: Here's your offer for $X. [Me]: I'd like $Y. [Company]: Your offer is for $X. [Me]: Well,…

1. Tell them you have one other offer (or late stage interview).

2. Ask for more money and/or more shares (if you think the shares are any good).

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#89

Post by lotsofpulp »

ffsm8 wrote: post #84
lotsofpulp wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment reads the same to me replacing “BATNA” with “alternative”.

Obviously, as the other letters of the acronym only describe what kind of alternative it is. I think a better way to phrase your critique would be: "acronyms harm the flow of your text - they're best used sparingly"

I am struggling to come up with a sentence where using the acronym "BATNA" provides additional utility compared to just using "alternative" (or "option").

In seemingly all situations, a decision maker is considering their most preferred alternatives rather than their least preferred alternatives.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#90

Post by hhdhdbdb »

ffsm8 wrote: post #84
lotsofpulp wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment reads the same to me replacing “BATNA” with “alternative”.

Obviously, as the other letters of the acronym only describe what kind of alternative it is. I think a better way to phrase your critique would be: "acronyms harm the flow of your text - they're best used sparingly"

BATNA is kind of a dog whistle that this is a slighty hostile business deal. Hostile under the hood. Smiles and handshakes on the surface.
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