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Ask HN: How do you learn to develop exploits?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you learn to develop exploits?

#81
post #31

http://exploit-exercises.com/ has a good virtual machine that you can exploit in your own time. I enjoyed working through Nebula.

Ah, finally. I found that site a while ago, didn't bookmark it and couldn't find it again.

Thanks.

Any others that are similar?

Re: Ask HN: How do you learn to develop exploits?

#82
Hanging out on boards, IRC, reading hacker publications will get you access to exploits of others. If you want to develop your own zero day exploits you need to become a really really great programmer. Then gain an understanding of the layers that live between the publicly accessible part of an application and the core system you want access to (usually the OS). Learn everything you can about those layers and how the creator has protected the system from unauthenticated users.

Sometimes you're dealing with completely open source apps. These are more secure but the plus side is that you have access to all uncompiled source code.

Sometimes you're dealing with all or part of the stack that is proprietary. These are sometimes less secure but you don't have access to easily readable source code so you need to use special tools to figure out what the creator has done to protect the system.

If you're trying to get into a specific system, intuition often helps you choose where to spend your energy first. You'll have a feel for what code has the least eyeballs on it or the less competent developers writing it, or less frequent updates so you look there first.

FYI there are two kinds of zero day exploits. The first is one you just discovered and no one knows about it. I think of that as true zero day. The second is one that fits the classical definition of the developer having zero dev days to fix it because they haven't been told yet, but many other folks may know about it. Discovering a true zero day security hole is very hard and getting harder because of the bounties being offered now. Often regular zero day holes are discovered by others who got hacked using it and simply back-tracked the hackers steps.

Hope that helps. I'm the developer of Wordfence, a security plugin for WordPress. Also disclosed the timthumb wordpress vulnerability last year and fixed the hole by rewriting timthumb.

Re: Ask HN: How do you learn to develop exploits?

#84
post #21

I would argue the magazines (such as 2600, which I absolutely loved when I was young) and books and oral tradition are all just ways of passing around specific and awesome anecdotes: it doesn't teach you how to do that, it is just interesting facts or entertainment for people who know. What you need, instead, is a mindset: when you are at the supermarket checking out with one of those self-checkout machines, does som…

I had an opportunity once to sit down with Don Knuth and play Halo on the X-box. Don was doing really poorly and I said, "Don, what are you doing?" His answer was "Playing." But for Don, playing wasn't kill the bad guys, get the best weapon upgrade, it was "What happens if I just sit here when this NPC wants me to follow him?", "Can I jump off this ledge in the back even though the game doesn't think I should?" He wa…

Wow, that must have been awesome. Thanks for sharing!

Re: Ask HN: How do you learn to develop exploits?

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an opportunity once to sit down with Don Knuth and play Halo on the X-box. Don was doing really poorly and I said, "Don, what are you doing?" His answer was "Playing." But for Don, playing wasn't kill the bad guys, get the best weapon upgrade, it was "What happens if I just sit here when this NPC wants me to follow him?", "Can I jump off this ledge in the back even though the game doesn't think I should?" He wa…

Wow, that must have been awesome. Thanks for sharing!

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How do you learn to develop exploits?

#86
post #21

I would argue the magazines (such as 2600, which I absolutely loved when I was young) and books and oral tradition are all just ways of passing around specific and awesome anecdotes: it doesn't teach you how to do that, it is just interesting facts or entertainment for people who know. What you need, instead, is a mindset: when you are at the supermarket checking out with one of those self-checkout machines, does som…

I had an opportunity once to sit down with Don Knuth and play Halo on the X-box. Don was doing really poorly and I said, "Don, what are you doing?" His answer was "Playing." But for Don, playing wasn't kill the bad guys, get the best weapon upgrade, it was "What happens if I just sit here when this NPC wants me to follow him?", "Can I jump off this ledge in the back even though the game doesn't think I should?" He wa…

"I had an opportunity once to sit down with Don Knuth and play Halo on the X-box." ... best thing I will read today.
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