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Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#81

Post by ghaff »

yamtaddle wrote: post #70
elbigbad wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so on point, back in the 20s I got my first tech job by putting an onion on my belt (that was the style at the time) and going to the company with a resume and shaking their hand and not releasing until they agreed to give me a job. Kids these days don’t know the value of a handshake and a drop by. I grew with them as a family and still hold the job to this day. The name of that company? The International Bus…

I got... oh, three of my first four software jobs, by walking in and asking. Including my second full-time role post-college. The first of these would have been around 2000, the last around 2010 or '11. The other one of those four just came to me directly through my network. Now that I think about it, of the 7ish jobs I've held in about 23 years, I don't think a single one came from "fill out this online application…

On the other hand, you're more senior and you probably know more senior people. I got my last job (or at least got the process rolling) by emailing the president of the company who I had met at events and did some work for.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#82

Post by yamtaddle »

ghaff wrote: post #81
yamtaddle wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got... oh, three of my first four software jobs, by walking in and asking. Including my second full-time role post-college. The first of these would have been around 2000, the last around 2010 or '11. The other one of those four just came to me directly through my network. Now that I think about it, of the 7ish jobs I've held in about 23 years, I don't think a single one came from "fill out this online application…

On the other hand, you're more senior and you probably know more senior people. I got my last job (or at least got the process rolling) by emailing the president of the company who I had met at events and did some work for.

Right, I'd kick up my event-attendance and mingling and leverage my network more now if I wanted to avoid the usual process, these days. That stuff tends to work less-well for those just starting out, but the "you showed up and personally showed interest" thing can still be huge for youngsters, I think, if not for ~immediately getting a job then at least for winning an internal advocate or two to grease the wheels on the process. Does require a smaller company, though. Big ones, you'll just get stuck in the lobby, I suppose, and you're not likely to run into anyone who'd care to help you out just hanging around the area. Probably a waste of time.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#84

Post by sokoloff »

noirbot wrote: post #56
sokoloff wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re applying to jobs that you (more or less) meet the qualifications for, there’s nothing at all for anyone to object to. What I do find negative (and unlikely to succeed anyway) is people shotgunning to roles that they aren’t remotely qualified for. I think qualified applicants have a hard time believing the volume of utterly unqualified applicants who knock on the virtual door of every SWE opening.

But what would a company do about that? That feels like complaining people don't read their email because of spam. You can't unilaterally prevent spammers, you can just improve filtering, which is something that's more on the company than something to blame on applicants.

Erecting algorithmic/automated testing to qualify candidates is the rational response (that’s frequently complained about by candidates).

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#85

Post by deadbeefinmoon »

BeetleB wrote: post #78
atmosx wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a problem?

Imagine you keep applying for jobs and you get none because all the existing employees are recommending their friends who are inferior to you in skills, but the company is prioritizing referrals. This is, and has always been, a real problem: That your ability to get good positions is limited not by your skill set but by your ability to network.

You only need a laptop to set up a company in this field. If there are separate networks of different ethnities (or whatever you mean by diversity) their companies should be able to win over the ones who are not hiring based on pure skill and abilities. Does this happen?

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#86

Post by ghaff »

noirbot wrote: post #44
ldehaan wrote: post #25

Using all of these hiring tools is the issue. They didn't work 20 years ago, still don't work, however interviewing someone like they're a person, asking questions, finding their passion, that has had 100% return for me and my companies. Word of mouth has been the best way I've been able to hire a lot of really skilled people. My team members have told me many times that I'm the best manager they've ever had. It's be…

I'm curious though - if I'm a skilled person who wants to find "a place worth working for" how would I do that? Especially in a remote work world? Most of the places I've worked over the years are smaller and more niche companies and teams that I wouldn't have known to look for if I didn't already know someone working there. If you're a small company who has tapped out their current team's referral network, how do yo…

>If you're a small company who has tapped out their current team's referral network, how do you get out the word that you're a good place to work, and how would people find out that you're a good place to work?

One thing I might do is have a blog which had genuinely interesting content that's both related to what the company does and working there.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#88

Post by rm445 »

blackbear_ wrote: post #46

A question for those who are hiring: how much do cover letters actually matter? How much of a setback is not submitting one (when it's optional)?

I have been hired essentially on the strength of a covering letter... weirdly, I was later cc'ed on a whole email chain going back to my application, and saw the impact of certain things I had mentioned.

It was basically explaining my passion for a cross-industry move. But for most people for most jobs, most of the time, a job is just a somewhat match for their skillset and there isn't much else to say. Now I'm hiring I don't pay much credence to cover letters or objective statements, but they can still be meaningful for certain people's circumstances. I think cover letters have a bad rep because a generic one is meaningless.

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#89

Post by warrenm »

ghaff wrote: post #33
warrenm wrote: post #11

Work for smaller companies Only "apply" to jobs where you already know at least one person at the company

Not even just smaller companies if you know someone high enough up :-) Every job I've had since right out of grad school has basically come through sending someone I knew an email. That's really the answer although it's probably not very actionable for a lot of more junior people.

"who" vs "what" you know has always been the "right answer" :)

Re: Ask HN: Why is hiring so dehumanized, and what can be done?

#90

Post by logicalmonster »

> Employers are overwhelmed with large numbers of applicants, most of whom don't meet the requested minimum requirements.

1) I wonder if the problem of being overwhelmed by applicants can be solved in the same way that dating sites work, because they somewhat have a similar issue. Perhaps restrict job seekers from applying to more than X jobs per day or week, like some dating sites do. At the least, this ensures that effort is put into individual applications and people are more selective about applying to jobs they think they have a reasonable chance to get rather than applying to anything they're remotely qualified for and playing a numbers game. Everybody will be applying to fewer jobs and can be more conscientious about the process, improving it for all.

2) And speaking of minimum requirements, in most cases they're not strict absolutes for performing the job. If you're going for some hard-core game developer job and you don't know C++, yeah that might be a big problem. But if you're going for a web-developer job and you haven't used one of 6 Ruby gems they listed in their ad, who gives a fuck? You should still apply because you're experienced enough to know that your general knowledge is in the ballpark of what they're really looking for.

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