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Ask HN: In 2022, what is the proper way to get into machine/deep learning?

news.ycombinator.com

81–90 of 211 posts

Re: Ask HN: In 2022, what is the proper way to get into machine/deep learning?

#81

I can only talk from my own experience but there's other way than just straight up go to ML/DL and crank out new models. That way is to come from the application domain side. [0] For me that was robotics, with the motivation that traditional method felt like it wouldn't scale outside static environments so I started to look in to ML/DL (Deep Reinforcement Learning really) and from the looks of it I'm not alone. [0] N…

I gave a more poorly expressed version of what you said.

With one change, I think the author has a domain in mind or plan. They really asked how to get to

> Read research publications and try to implement them.

They might want to be able to use the body of AI and working code to apply it to a different but specific problem. Be a power user of existing models.

But totally agree and well said!

Re: Ask HN: In 2022, what is the proper way to get into machine/deep learning?

#82

https://www.deeplearningbook.org/ and http://incompleteideas.net/book/the-book-2nd.html are excellent resources for supervised and reinforcement learning, respectively, and some knowledge of statistics and probability go a long way. But I think by far the most important thing is to just start training models, even very small ones, and developing an intuition for what works and what the failure modes are. - Get really…

Goodfellow's book is a bad recommendation for people don't already know the material in it.

Re: Ask HN: In 2022, what is the proper way to get into machine/deep learning?

#83
> By getting into machine or deep learning I mean building upto a stage to do ML/DL research.

> The target ability:

> 1. To understand the theory behind the algorithms

> 2. To implement an algorithm on a dataset of choice. (Data cleaning and management should also be learned)

> 3. Read research publications and try to implement them.

There are many different ways that people do ML/DL research these days. Some people do more theory-work which will necessarily be more focused on mathematics, and others do more of an applied approach which will be more focused on coding and iterating.

For theory-driven work, I think Michael I Jordans list is still pretty solid:

> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1055389

I would focus on the fundamentals first though:

1. get a solid background in mathematics

  - analysis (a suggestion is Baby Rudin)

  - probability (Grimmet and Stirzaker, maybe something with measure theory after)

  - statistics (Casella and Berger or Wasserman's book is a good start)
2. get a solid foundation in statistical machine learning

  - Introduction to Statistical Learning is a fantastic start

  - Then choose 1 or both of the following:

    - Elements of Statistical Learning for a Frequentist Approach

    - Pattern Recognition & Machine Learning for a Bayesian Approach
3. get a baseline understanding of deep learning

  - the deep learning book by Goodfellow is decent

  - start reading papers here and trying to implement them
If you get through to this last step, you are probably solid enough to get a job building models. If that's the route you want, then begin iterating on learning about new approaches in papers (look for papers with code / data) and implementing them.

If you want to go the academic route, you have enough of a view of the field to begin specializing further. Choose a sub-domain and dig deep if you want to do more deep learning work. Maybe revisit Michael I Jordan's list if you're still confused about where to go. A lot of those books will feel a lot more familiar.

Best of luck!

Re: Ask HN: In 2022, what is the proper way to get into machine/deep learning?

#84

Can I suggest a longer, but (I think) better route? Try the Data/ML Engineer route. Instead of going directly into ML, try to work as a “supporter” of those doing ML. There’s a HUGE gap there, specially if you’re a good programmer. There are a lot of people in the “pure” ML space, people with science background, with phDs, etc. But there’s not enough people to support them: taking their models to producing, building…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: In 2022, what is the proper way to get into machine/deep learning?

#85
post #71
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data Engineer is the outsourced part of what no ML researcher wants to do - a thankless, high-pressure, dead-end job which in no way leads to actually doing ML later - it would pigeon-hole the OP as unfit for real ML. The best way is to take Stanford Deep Learning courses at SCPD, build a reputation, do real ML work (even if it's not a PhD, it's the same courses Stanford PhDs take).

I agree with your first sentence. I'm not sure I would recommend SCPD. If you want to do real ML work, you pretty much need the PhD. This is a hard thing for people who have 140+ IQs but do poorly for whatever reason with formal education to accept, but it's true. Even if you get one real ML job without a doctoral degree, you won't get a second one. Sure, other 140+ IQs can recognize very smart people with only (or n…

So basically no chance for the OP to ever get to ML as getting into a top 10 ML school for a PhD is a minor miracle, finishing it even bigger and that's just the initial qualification step?

Re: Ask HN: In 2022, what is the proper way to get into machine/deep learning?

#86
post #62
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In smaller teams/companies one gets to wear multiple hats. However, the term "Data engineer" was specifically created by/for ML folks to get rid of unpleasant repetitive work that has to be done but nobody looks forward to it.

Sorry, no. The term "ML scientist" was specifically created by/for data folks to get rid of unpleasant repetitive work with math equations that has to be done but nobody looks forward to it. If you've ever crafted a pipeline and tuned it to hum along, then watched it break with new/more/messier data, then figured out creative ways to fix it or replace parts of it with more robust parts, iterating on that and scaling…

Sounds like what the media entertainment companies call a "pipeline engineer". Hmmm...

Re: Ask HN: In 2022, what is the proper way to get into machine/deep learning?

#87

My 2c (not exhaustive for what you want to do, probably): 1) Get some statistics/probability basics. It's full of people (you can see a lot of analyses on Kaggle) that "do machine learning" but make very silly mistakes (e.g. turn categorical data into a float and use it as a continuous variable when training a model). 2) take a look at traditional machine learning approaches. Nowadays you're swamped by DL (a lot of g…

OMSCS is less intense than SCPD. OMSCS has major deliveries approximately every two-three weeks whereas SCPD every week with a similar depth. UTexas' MSDSO is even more relaxed. So if you want to save time, Stanford SCPD it is.

Re: Ask HN: In 2022, what is the proper way to get into machine/deep learning?

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s IT support for the people doing real work. This is an appalling perspective. Good MLE skills seem a lot harder to find that good ML ones.

Someone who can engineer infrastructure, pipelines and fire fight production issues is hard to find, but that’s not the point I was making. My apologies; It is real work; the point I was making is it’s not ML work , any more than writing a yaml file is ML work. If you want to write yaml files, any number of possibilities exist. If you want to work with machine learning, then don’t become a data engineer. The skills a…

I first had the DE title 7 years ago (going into it having never heard of DE), and have been doing MLE/platform work for the past 5. You’re projecting your limited experience onto a poorly defined role that varies wildly from company to company. My experience is much different from yours: little firefighting, lots of actual building. Yes there is infrastructure, but any good programmer these days should be able to stand up some basic infrastructure.

Yes, don’t get into it if you want to do ML research or apply ML, but if you are interested a bit in it and find building models the least creative, most boring shit ever like I do, and prefer traditional coding, it’s a nice spot to be in.

Re: Ask HN: In 2022, what is the proper way to get into machine/deep learning?

#90
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve kinda developed the view that large organisations come to mirror the Russian Communist Party. I’m interested in “flow capture based on power relationships”. Do you have any recommended reading on this?

> I’ve kinda developed the view that large organisations come to mirror the Russian Communist Party. Only the ones which have an unkillable cash cow. So, I suspect Google or large banks are mostly like that, but places like SpaceX or even large consulting firms (Delloitte, IBM etc., where managers essentially eat what they kill) cannot allow themselves to degenerate into a Chinese court.

Now this is interesting. I've always found it fascinating that when profit is on the table, democracy is nowhere to be found. I've looked, not too hard TBH, for essays and literature discussing the correlations to business model management structures and government/nation political hierarchies - not education level (propaganda), but critical analysis. I've been an employee of several of the top corporations on our planet, and the idea that corruption is not rampant is a farce. One simply lives within the environmental constraints and leaves when it gets to be too much. Does caring about corporate (and the larger realm of ethics) cast one incompatible with a modern corporate hierarchy?
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