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Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

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Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#81

Post by cameldrv »

Depending on your network in SF, you may be able to source contract work from there while working in Germany. If you can put up with not having local coworkers, you can get SF rates and pay small-town Bavaria costs and have her family to help with the kids.

Even if you commute into Munich, software developers in Germany don't get paid any where near what they do in the U.S.

One word of advice if you go down this path is to get very high quality tax advice. Contracting from overseas as an American involves the interaction between two tax systems, and it can be complicated. For example, if you don't structure the work in the right way you can end up paying U.S. self employment tax (about 15%) on your earnings.

Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#82

Post by eappleby »

Personally, I would move to San Diego over Sacramento or a small village in Germany. San Diego has wonderful weather, plenty of outdoor activities, it is very safe, and generally one of the best cities to raise a family in the United States. Family is nice, but if your father can watch the kids one night a month, that would be plenty. If you get bored living in a small village, you may end up resenting your wife's parents. I wouldn't focus too much on career growth. If you already traveled and lived in Amsterdam and still made it work, you're probably going to succeed in either place.

Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#84

Post by uberman »

tailsdog wrote: post #48
uberman wrote: post #2

Not long ago, my spouse was offered an academic position in southern CA. For us, housing was the veto even though the other aspects of the job including salary were better. The issue was that houses at the end of the international runway were a million bucks. To replicate what we have now would have required an hour commute and 5.5 million bucks. We also have kids so I think we are in a similar demographic. So, I thi…

Those property comparisons are way way off - Passau is in the middle of nowhere - if you wanted a house like that close to Munich it would cost millions and it's even a struggle to find one available. Housing in decent locations in Bavaria is very expensive and in very short supply compared to San Diego.

I'm sure housing close to Munich is more expensive and I don't know Bavaria at all. The OP suggesting a small village is where they might end up so I picked what I thought was a representative property based only on the price and look of it.

Given that the OP says "we'd end up in a similarly small village" do you still feel my comparison is unfair?

Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#85

Post by mcv »

klipt wrote: post #71
mcv wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the US sounds rather hostile to raising children, from everything I hear. Not just the school shootings, but also being unable to play outside, no biking to school, and the way politics seems eager to politicise everything about education there. I'd definitely pick Germany. Actually, I'd pick Netherland, because that's where kids are apparently the happiest in the world, but Germany sounds like a great alternat…

Is rural Germany friendly towards foreigners, especially non white ones? I've heard in Germany (and Europe in general) you'll forever be a stranger, while America is more of a melting pot and immigrants are allowed to become Americans.

I think every European country has a naturalisation process similar to the US. And the US clearly has no shortage of xenophobia, considering the support for the previous president there.

How much you will truly be accepted depends a lot on where you are. Some places, like New York or Amsterdam, are very cosmopolitan. Rural areas often a lot less so. Munich probably more than the Bavarian country side.

Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#86

Post by gamechangr »

tjansen wrote: post #79
klipt wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is rural Germany friendly towards foreigners, especially non white ones? I've heard in Germany (and Europe in general) you'll forever be a stranger, while America is more of a melting pot and immigrants are allowed to become Americans.

No experience of my own, as I am German, but there are idiots everywhere, including Germany. Before I start, I let me emphasize that I do not condone what I am going to describe, I am just describing it from my perspective. I think it's more important how you dress than the color of your skin. If you dress in your home country's traditional clothes, you will probably experience more hostility than when you are wearin…

Broken English is very accepted in the US.

Some would go as far as to say that there is good feelings for those who try to speak the language after all, most Americans were immigrants a few generations back.

Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#87

Post by pwinnski »

tjansen wrote: post #79
klipt wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is rural Germany friendly towards foreigners, especially non white ones? I've heard in Germany (and Europe in general) you'll forever be a stranger, while America is more of a melting pot and immigrants are allowed to become Americans.

No experience of my own, as I am German, but there are idiots everywhere, including Germany. Before I start, I let me emphasize that I do not condone what I am going to describe, I am just describing it from my perspective. I think it's more important how you dress than the color of your skin. If you dress in your home country's traditional clothes, you will probably experience more hostility than when you are wearin…

I think people around the world underestimate just how much support there is in the US for things like "broken English" and immigrants generally. There are some high-profile political counter-examples, of course, but by and large, immigrants still find the US much more welcoming to immigrants than most other countries.

That doesn't mean it's safer, and we still often struggle with delivering health care, but it's a weirdly welcoming place.

Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#88

Post by BrandoElFollito »

keiferski wrote: post #21

Consider a third option: Switzerland. Salaries will be considerably higher than Germany and you’re only a few hours away (by train) from Bavaria.

The work safety wild be lower, though (similar to the at-will system in the US). This may make a difference since OP has kids.

Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#89

Post by BrandoElFollito »

stareatgoats wrote: post #27

I'm neither an SWE parent, nor American or German so I can't advice on anything related to those. Instead I think you should also consider this (ultimately more important I think FWIW): What nationality do you want your children to be? If the thought of your children growing up to be Germans is unbearable to you but if the thought of your children being Americans is acceptable to your wife then you should chose CA, a…

On terms of pure nationality, they are already German through their mother. I guess that American too through the father.

Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#90

Post by majewsky »

jamal-kumar wrote: post #3

30000* Germany. You get like an entire month paid vacation. Companies are incredibly thirsty for talent there and job security is high. The people are very nice and the job pay isn't worse enough to worry about being poor. Most large cities are within a few hours of whatever small town, so you don't have to be in the middle of a field somewhere if that isn't ideal. And for your kids the education system is waaaaaaay…

> You get like an entire month paid vacation.

More like 1.5 months realistically. Four weeks is literally the legal minimum.

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