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Ask HN: Is it just me or do 99% of SWE jobs offers seem completely pointless?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or do 99% of SWE jobs offers seem completely pointless?

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you feel the need to tell people that they are suffering from depression online? Did you fill out the HAM-D questionnaire in your head based off his post?

Well, the poster asked how people work a job without offing themselves. Saying someone who is considering suicide might instead consider talking to their doctor doesn’t seem all that controversial to me?

I've seen doctors, lots of them. I tried multiple antidepressants. The most effective antidepressant seemed to be 10mg of QuittingMyJobs.

Honestly absolutely nothing is going good in my life right now, and I'm STILL HAPPIER than when I had a 9-5 job.

I'm in a better place mentally without a job, without any meds and without money, than with a job, a ton of money and a treatment.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or do 99% of SWE jobs offers seem completely pointless?

#82
post #37

Maybe you just see capitalism for what it is [1]. If so, this might be the wrong forum for you to be asking that question on. On the other hand, not every job is unproductive busywork (despite being for profit), so maybe you're just not feeling well or you've had exceptionally bad luck? 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/

As someone who lived through communism - this kind of phrasing is really dangerous. What people complain about on /r/antiwork is problems that people from my country would kill to have. Capitalism has it's faults, but just complaining, without a constructive alternative can lead to way worse outcomes.

> Capitalism has it's faults, but just complaining, without a constructive alternative

Classic "mudding the waters" line, it could be written by a plugin these days. The fact that you don't agree with the alternatives doesn't mean they aren't out there and people "just complain".

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or do 99% of SWE jobs offers seem completely pointless?

#83
The Stoic philosophers considered this, though they of course were not software engineers or even in a capitalist world. You can only pursue "arete" (excellence) under your own criteria. As the Stoics remind us, you don't control the social conditions you live in. You can only do the role you have as best as possible, and that you do control. The job itself may be pointless. You can still try to do it well, and that is the reward.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or do 99% of SWE jobs offers seem completely pointless?

#84
Now measure how many non-SWE jobs are pointless. And keep in mind Price's law potentially applying, where half the work is done by the square root of the number of people. Then measure human activities of any kind, not just jobs.

You can conclude that it's all or almost all pointless, but really points and meaning are made by individuals. They exist, just not "out there" like electricity, only within brains. So for yourself it's mostly just a perspective issue. Even among people who 'cope', the same job and work can feel one way or the other at different times, when it feels one way there's really no coping involved.

Maybe try taking something that gives you a close feedback loop with paying customers -- that is, you yourself talk to them, there's a direct connection between your work and its effects on them, even if you're not the Decider or whatever for overall business goals. When you see how happy they can be about paying for your stuff (even stuff you think is kinda meh), it's less about "squeezing" them, and more about keeping them happy, seeing them happier when their additional needs are listened to, and continuing to deliver value in mutual exchange. This isn't a sure thing to change your perspective and your gigs may have been that close anyway, but I find it helpful to have that context rather than something super far removed. (Though even then if you trace some lines out you can find meaning in your own cog -- try doing it in reverse, too, consider some brass on some trivial object near you like a doorknob or a pencil wrapping below the eraser. Where was that brass made? Where was the iron and zinc mined from? What were the miners' tools made out of, how were they made? How was it transported to its present location? There were lots of people with jobs small or large involved in every thing around you.)

Job length has a quality of its own, too. 6 months is often not enough time to really see the fruits of your labor. It's an interesting feeling to build something collaboratively and incrementally over longer periods (one year, three years...) with early adoption at first and lots of limitations or problems and broader adoption later with more flexibility and fewer problems.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or do 99% of SWE jobs offers seem completely pointless?

#85
The culture, or what is sometimes called the hegemony, is directly or indirectly controlled by corporations. This website included. They present a false view that you are free. You are not, you are a wage slave.

Hunter-gatherers deep in the Amazon have a lot of control over their lives but you do not. Work in your context is alienating and for someone else's benefit. The main "benefit" for you is taking away enough of the wealth you're creating to survive until the next day so that you can continue to enrich the heirs who collect the profits and dividends of your labor.

My advice is to become more aware of this and then go to work full time. Realize your boss is your enemy. Realize your coworkers for the most part are in the same boat as you and are generally allies. Expecting your company is your family, and that your boss is looking out for you, that your work is not alienating and fulfilling will lead to depression.

There are things you can do to make your life more tolerable as time goes by. There are things you can do to join with workers all over the world to end capitalist exploitation, which can at times be very fulfilling. A lot of it is contained in this thread. One common thread is deal with the company like any other unpleasant thing - clock in, don't expect anything back from it but misery and a percentage of the wealth you create. Anything positive you feel or do will be on your own, or with other workers. Company are mechanisms to expropriate surplus labor time from workers to benefit heirs. How can you expect fulfillment giving so much of the time of your life to such an enterprise?

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or do 99% of SWE jobs offers seem completely pointless?

#86
Maybe the private sector just isn't for you. Look at the public sector. It's a lower salary but it seems like you would rather work on something that matters than get paid a lot of money. You may end up doing something that isn't software engineering as public sector software engineering jobs are hard to come by but public sector jobs overall aren't.

Think about what you want to do, who you want to help, and look for charities or NGOs that do that.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or do 99% of SWE jobs offers seem completely pointless?

#87

Don’t agree with most of these comments. Not wanting to work at a company that makes some uninteresting business product just a little more profitable does not mean that you are depressed. Working at a place like that can certainly make you depressed though! To the OP, I think you have a few options. On one hand you can keep taking short jobs / consulting or try to build some sort of simple SaaS business that you can…

Anything that harms your ability to live happily can be considered a disease.

Not being able to work at 99% of the companies that employ your profession is arguably something that harms your ability to live happily.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or do 99% of SWE jobs offers seem completely pointless?

#88
You are not wrong. After 20 years of work I agree that being a drone to squeeze out more profit for the shareholders is unfulfilling. At best you could argue that working with a good group of people at a company with a good workplace culture makes it OK in some ways. But not everyone works that way.

It sounds like you’d be happier doing solo work. Maybe make a good library, piece of software, saas application etc. working for yourself and having time to do what you want to do is great for many people.

Find something that you are comfortable doing to make money. Who knows, maybe you will enjoy it.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or do 99% of SWE jobs offers seem completely pointless?

#89
I think you’re defining “meaningful” too narrowly as “the business does something meaningful/important (to you)”, it may well do that but suck your soul out doing it, or harm people/things in the process, SpaceX might be a good example of that, or Theranos. The inverse of what you say you’re looking for is finding meaning in a job at an uninteresting company, there are still interesting people and interesting sub-problems at otherwise uninteresting places.

Re: Ask HN: Is it just me or do 99% of SWE jobs offers seem completely pointless?

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be so quick to call it depression. This person is seeing a truth about the state of affairs in the corporate world and hasn't yet figured out how to integrate that truth and become functional in our broken system.

doing mostly 'cog in a machine' type of work in order to make enough money to be safe and have some extra for fun and future planning is a core part of nearly every human life on the planet and most people get on fine with it, without wanting to kill themselves. in fact for most people the situation is significantly worse, OP is in a privileged position in a relatively well paid industry with relatively non-menial wo…

This is generally called an existential crisis.[1] Being rich and privileged can actually cause this to happen. If you are poor you really don't have the time and energy to worry about the meaning of life because you are focused on not being homeless, or hungry, or unsafe, or alone.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_crisis

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