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Ask HN: How to start learning about investments?

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Re: Ask HN: How to start learning about investments?

#81
post #41

Through your journey, try to find meaning in these quotes. When I first heard them, they sounded reasonable, but I didn’t know if they were just folksy wisdom or hard truths. I tried to resolve which is what. They are all hard truths. 1. You can’t stand to see your neighbor getting rich. You know you’re smarter than he is and he’s doing these things and he’s getting rich 2. The stock market can remain irrational long…

> You can’t stand to see your neighbor getting rich. You know you’re smarter than he is and he’s doing these things and he’s getting rich This is the only one I don't understand.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How to start learning about investments?

#82

The general advice is to buy an index fund because over a long period of time the market will rise. But what if I buy before a bear period? I will be stuck there 10 years just to recover my money and another 10 years to make some returns.

> But what if I buy before a bear period?

The story of “Bob”, the world’s worst market timer, only buying at the peaks:

* https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-market...

Don't try to figure out when the dip will occur, just sitting with cash on the sidelines in the meantime. Buying a little every month is generally the best strategy most of us should use:

* https://ofdollarsanddata.com/even-god-couldnt-beat-dollar-co...

> I will be stuck there 10 years just to recover my money and another 10 years to make some returns.

For the US at least, things generally don't take too long to recover (Great Depression notwithstanding):

* https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2020/03/how-long-does-it-ta...

* https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2021/07/how-long-does-it-ta...

If you're saving for retirement, then you actually want it to go down (occasionally): that means your monthly contribution can buy more for that month. Then once you're near retirement you move your portfolio to something more a conservative leaning so the swings don't effect you as much.

Re: Ask HN: How to start learning about investments?

#83
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm intrigued. 1. How is a regular guy going to achieve the same results as a hedge fund with a 10 million dollar portfolio? 2. Regarding Buffett's quote, do you mean "diversification is protection against ignorance?" I think his point is that if you have special knowledge you can take a concentrated position in a stock, but that for the regular guy, diversification is a hedge. Since most stocks underperform and most…

>How is a regular guy going to achieve the same results as a hedge fund with a 10 million dollar portfolio? Maybe by finding a well managed small fund and buying into it?

> Maybe by finding a well managed small fund and buying into it?

Just because a fund manager is good now, does not mean they'll be good in the future. It's the same situation as with stocks: how do you know when to jump ship?

Further, over longer periods of time, most fund managers don't beat the market average:

* https://www.ifa.com/articles/despite_brief_reprieve_2018_spi...

And just because a few funds do manage to beat the average, it's hard to tell that they are ahead of time. Over the last 40-50 years (in the US) there have been some that have had excellent results—for a while. Until they didn't ("Chasing Top Fund Managers"):

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6HrepdLSu4 (18m34s)

* https://rationalreminder.ca/podcast/136 (topic starts at ~15m)

Plenty of peer-reviewed papers at the bottom of that second (podcast) link.

Re: Ask HN: How to start learning about investments?

#84
Besides learning about "investing", I would also recommend you take a step back and look at your relationship with money generally. I recommend The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel as a good start:

> Timeless lessons on wealth, greed, and happiness doing well with money isn’t necessarily about what you know. It’s about how you behave. And behavior is hard to teach, even to really smart people. How to manage money, invest it, and make business decisions are typically considered to involve a lot of mathematical calculations, where data and formulae tell us exactly what to do. But in the real world, people don’t make financial decisions on a spreadsheet. They make them at the dinner table, or in a meeting room, where personal history, your unique view of the world, ego, pride, marketing, and odd incentives are scrambled together. In the psychology of money, the author shares 19 short stories exploring the strange ways people think about money and teaches you how to make better sense of one of life’s most important matters.

* https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/41881472-the-psycholo...

Money is a 'tool' that you should use in your life to accomplish particular goals. Interview with the author:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSaRb-iFwPA

* https://rationalreminder.ca/podcast/128

Another good book on "non-financial investing":

> From why we should place more value on social and human capital, we look into why financial planning has a profound impact on how you manage your investments. We touch on direct indexing, the relationship between money and happiness, and the unexpected yet incredible perspectives that came from giving advisors a license to tell their stories.

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wxTVjHLqwM

* https://rationalreminder.ca/podcast/126

* https://www.amazon.com/How-Invest-My-Money-Finance/dp/085719...

Re: Ask HN: How to start learning about investments?

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, beating the market should be like being in the top 50 percentile of your class. The reason most big funds fail to do this is because they need to overcome the fees they charge, to match the market. If you are investing yourself, you won't have the fees to overcome. You do need to be a bit careful around trading costs and taxes. Luck can play a huge factor too. If you have domain expertise in a specific s…

>being in the top 50 percentile of your class But will you do better long term than a passive index fund?

Not easy, unless you have an ability to identify opportunities that others don't have (such as applying your domain knowledge on a new trend, as I mentioned). You may do better than the market (market == passive index fund == averages) sometime, and worse some other time. And over a long time, you may just end up matching the market, minus any fees. With a passive index fund, the fees will be tiny.

Re: Ask HN: How to start learning about investments?

#86
post #62

There are a lot of junk resources that just want to sell you things and are a waste of time. It takes a certain level of expertise just to find competent teachers. But I'll try to briefly summarize what I wish I had known when I started. ~80% of this game is showing up. (Pareto Principle.) Wealthfront, Betterment, or a target-date mutual fund is way better for growth than a bank account. Start there if you don't have…

Thank you! I am not from US so no 401k. 15%-30% seems huge to me. Isn't the risks big compared to buying an index fund?

I don't know tax laws in other countries, sorry. Some of them have similar tax-sheltered retirement accounts though.

The 15-30% is if you're being very aggressive (but not reckless) with leverage. You wouldn't get that much in Wealthfront's default portfolio, or a target-date mutual fund, for example. That's also on average over time; some years will return much more than 30%, and some will lose money, and, of course, past performance can't guarantee future results. Broad market conditions could shift enough to invalidate any strategy. But you can do better than index funds. Compare PSLDX to SPY over the same period: https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&t...

Notice that they both had ~50% drawdowns, bottoming around 2009, but PSLDX was not that much worse, and grew faster afterwards. SPY also had a slightly worse worst year. PSLDX had significantly more volatility, but the returns more than made up for it, giving it a better Sharpe ratio than SPY. So not only are the absolute risks comparable, but the higher Sharpe means that if you leverage PSLDX down to SPY's volatility (by keeping a 17% cash balance), the drawdown was smaller and the return is still higher than SPY at ~15% instead of ~11%.

Re: Ask HN: How to start learning about investments?

#87
I’ve read all of the popular books. Rich Dad Poor Dad. The Intelligent Investor. Books about Buffett. But what stick in my mind is 1) The Little Book of Behavioral Investing and 2) Zero To One. The latter is not an investing book per se, but the ideas in it have been worth seven figures to me so far.

Re: Ask HN: How to start learning about investments?

#88

The general advice is to buy an index fund because over a long period of time the market will rise. But what if I buy before a bear period? I will be stuck there 10 years just to recover my money and another 10 years to make some returns.

For that to play out: are you planning one doing one enormous index fund purchase and never investing again?

If you’re talking IRA, we’ll you could have only put in $6k. Market dumps and the following year you can put in another $6k at a much lower price per share.

Re: Ask HN: How to start learning about investments?

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Stop it with this mentality. When managing a small portfolio, < 5 million dollars, you can be very agile in how you invest. Small hedge funds in NYC with less than 10 million under management regularly make 50-100% a year. It’s not a controversial opinion. It’s just that the financial industry has pushed this narrative as a way to sell index fund products. Completely diversifying your investments is a terrible wa…

> When managing a small portfolio, Most stocks suck: > We study long-run shareholder outcomes for over 64,000 global common stocks during the January 1990 to December 2020 period. We document that the majority, 55.2% of U.S. stocks and 57.4% of non-U.S. stocks, underperform one-month U.S. Treasury bills in terms of compound returns over the full sample. Focusing on aggregate shareholder outcomes, we find that the top…

Dude I’m too busy to argue with you, I literally used to regularly interact with people making these returns. Yes it’s hard and it’s a full time job. But it happens all the time, academic research is worthless. Accepting index returns basically means keeping up with inflation, and “getting rich” at 70 years old. If that’s what your aim is in life then sure, go for it

Re: Ask HN: How to start learning about investments?

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the objective data that is there says that 1% of day traders out perform the market in the shanghai stock exchange (I could misremember). What are the odds that you are of those 1%? (Hint: you're probably not in that group.) Given that I have >20 years until retirement, what are the odds that I will be in that 1% for all of that time? Further most stocks suck: > We study long-run shareholder outcomes for over 6…

>What are the odds that you manage to pick those few stocks that produce those returns? Aren't most of those stocks the best performers of each industry? Can you fail by buying FAANG?

Stocks don't go magically go up all the time. When earnings slow down, the stock stops being seen as a growth stock, and the share price stays flat or goes down. Generally speaking anyway.
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