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Ask HN: Who doesn’t want to go back to the office?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Ask HN: Who doesn’t want to go back to the office?

#81

Post by czep »

Fundamentally this is about respect for the autonomy of my time. I am paid to deliver value. Sometimes that is best served by direct in-person collaboration, but not every single day. The deal I offer to prospective employers is this: I do my best not to be a blocker when I can't be physically present, and you realize that I am a whole human being who does not exist solely to pad your bank account.

Pre-pandemic, I had a CFO say to me "I don't pay for all this expensive office space so you can work from home." I had a CTO tell me "WFH sends a message to your reports that you don't want to be here." I was too obsequious at the time, not to mention afraid to lose my job, to push back, so I relented despite a punishing balance of childcare when my son was very young. But today I call bullshit on this ancient relic of Taylor's "scientific management" peddled by the HBR-reading neocons populating finance departments all across tech. A job that requires my ass to be in a seat is not a job, it's a prison.

Re: Ask HN: Who doesn’t want to go back to the office?

#82

Post by agent008t »

Demoneeri wrote: post #16

I might not necessarily want to go back to the office full time (I always had the possibility for part time remote work anyway), but I'm missing my bike ride commute and some off-record discussion with colleagues that are harder to have over Teams.

Why not go for a bike ride wherever you want every morning and evening?

Re: Ask HN: Who doesn’t want to go back to the office?

#83

Post by ChrisArchitect »

Look at all the reaction/talk about this in recent posts to get an idea:

34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26727678

I hope work from home continues https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26712524

Re: Ask HN: Who doesn’t want to go back to the office?

#84

Post by adjkant »

tolbish wrote: post #80
adjkant wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the OP is asking for opinions on said issue, this seems incredibly normal? What would be the point of a thread where only people with an opinion/preference on one side post they all feel the same way? The point is to get a discussion and understand where everyone stands and why, at least it seems to me.

There are plenty of such threads: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23086452 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25168589 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24452280 This thread was intended for people who do not want to go back. It's not a big deal, it just isn't the place.

> it just isn't the place

I think you've fallen into trying to moderate the internet as a user here. The verbiage of this post just isn't that strong, as evident by the primary reply being far from alone

Re: Ask HN: Who doesn’t want to go back to the office?

#85

Post by pickle-wizard »

I started a new job last November. When I was looking for a job, a requirement was permanent remote. I enjoy not having to commute. I have an office setup in an extra bedroom. It is so much nicer than dealing with the open floor-plans that companies like. For lunch I can just cook something instead of going out an eating fast food.

I find communicating with the team works pretty, we just chat or call on teams. Some people don't communicate well, but from what I've learned, they didn't communicate well before COVID either.

I'm not saying I'll never go back into the office, it will just have to be one heck of an offer.

Re: Ask HN: Who doesn’t want to go back to the office?

#86

Post by czep »

dougmwne wrote: post #62
aliljet wrote: post #29

I may be the malcontent, but I'm tired of being at home. I want to keep the option of being at home, but I miss the community I found at work, I miss the non-work adventures our team had, and frankly, I think the new folks joining our teams are not nearly as integrated into our family as those of that came before the pandemic. I've worked remote for a decade and the option to work remote for 2ish days a week makes li…

Your coworkers are not your family, unless they are literally your family business. Most people don't learn this lesson till the first layoff and they watch those warm and friendly relationships sublimate in an instant.

> Most people don't learn this lesson till the first layoff

You hit the nail on the head. While I definitely feel for all the early-career folks out there who are genuinely missing out on the camaraderie of working together, I urge all of you not to fall into the trap of thinking that your employment relationship is anything more than mercenary.

They will cut you without a moment's hesitation. Buying into the "we're a family" propaganda makes them rich and makes you dependent on them. Use the learnings of the Pandemic to redefine the future of work on your own terms. It's time we all flipped the script. We're the ones producing value, and from now on we're going to do it on OUR terms.

Re: Ask HN: Who doesn’t want to go back to the office?

#88

Post by jareklupinski »

As an engineer I have never felt more productive, everyone on my team agrees that a return to office would dampen productivity, and at a startup even a temporary "re-adjustment period" at the wrong time could turn into a disaster.

I worry about my colleagues outside engineering however.

Re: Ask HN: Who doesn’t want to go back to the office?

#89

Post by silicon2401 »

falcolas wrote: post #79
aeone wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems somewhat overly general and pessimistic. Some of us develop strong support relationships with our colleagues on our teams, which results in conversations and activities that happen well outside of work hours or premises, and lasting friendships that remain strong even years after they've parted ways with the company that brought us together.

I had this happen exactly once, and that was because we were friends outside of work before we were colleagues at work. Every other place, all of my "friends" at work, even those I had outside contact with via Facebook or beers, went radio silent when I moved on. It's not pessimistic, it's reality. Exceptions that prove the rules, etc.

It's the grown-up version of school as a substitute for parents. In grade school, school holds your hand and ideally teaches you how to be functional in society and in groups. In college, the school holds your hand through learning to be an independent adult with freedoms and responsibilities, but shielding you from real consequences: bad grades? Probation. Drugs or alcohol? Deal with the school, not the cops. The office is just another iteration of that: can't meet people on your own? Just come to the office. Can't find meetups despite infinite facebook groups, subreddits, etc? Come to happy hour.

I understand why people like the office, but it's frustrating to be forced to go into the office just because other people aren't able to have a social life without an office holding their hand through it.

Re: Ask HN: Who doesn’t want to go back to the office?

#90

Post by pbhowmic »

The commute to & from work is 2.5 hours of my life for which I don't get paid. This is time away from my school-age kids. Not to mention everytime there is a Covid scare in any one of their classes, I will have a kid who has to transition to online learning. No, I really don't see how I can justify going back
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