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Ask HN: How to relocate to Europe as a software developer

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Re: Ask HN: How to relocate to Europe as a software developer

#81

Post by pajko »

silicon2401 wrote: post #62
chmod775 wrote: post #11

It's pretty easy to move to (most) European countries really. It's nothing like what you're hearing from people trying to move to the US. Most will just let you stay to work (visa/residence permit) with relatively little bureaucracy. As long as you have a job they won't bother you. There's some other requirements (qualified professional, certain income), but as a software developer you won't have any trouble. Your em…

Does this apply for Germany, Austria, or Sweden? I speak German and have some familiarity with the (German) culture and country through a decade of study and a couple of visits. Less familiar with Sweden, but I fell in love with the country after visiting and was able to pick up some minimal understanding after studying it for a few months, so I don't think getting conversational would be too difficult.

Sweden is a bit over-bureaucratic. To get a work visa, you need a job. To get a job, you need a home address in Sweden. To rent something to get a home address, you need work visa and a job, and it takes a lot of paperwork to break this cycle. Also depending on the city finding an apartment to rent can take a lot of time [1].

Consider adding Czechia to your list. Nice place with good beer, and central enough to easily visit other EU countries.

Worth checking [2] and [3]

[1] https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20160517-this-is-one-ci...

[2] https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/country

[3] https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?cou...

Re: Ask HN: How to relocate to Europe as a software developer

#82

Post by chx »

mam2 wrote: post #45
chx wrote: post #36

Croatia just started a program where you can stay for a year (instead of the usual 90 days) as a digital nomad. > A DIGITAL NOMAD IS a third-country national who is employed or performs work through communication technology for a company or his own company that is not registered in the Republic of Croatia and does not perform work or provide services to employers in the Republic of Croatia. https://www.croatia.hr/en-…

Is there not similar thing in estonia

Oh, I haven't seen that one, thanks for the pointer, it's also a new thing, started last August. https://e-resident.gov.ee/nomadvisa/ there's a monthly gross income threshold of €3504 so for struggling freelancers it's not going to work.

Re: Ask HN: How to relocate to Europe as a software developer

#83

Post by max1984_2 »

FormFollowsFunc wrote: post #56
max1984_2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone always talks about London, but misses out some of the other cities/large towns. Manchester maybe a better option than London. Manchester is cheaper and has almost all the things you want from London without a lot of the negatives. Pay isn't nearly as good but the costs of living in Manchester are about 1/2 to 1/3rd of what London is. If you want better weather the south-coast has Bournemouth (lots of smaller…

I moved from London to Manchester and my experience wasn't positive. While it might be cheaper there wasn't a lot of jobs. You are better off sticking to the South East.

There are plenty of jobs in and around Manchester.

South East is expensive and you wouldn't catch me going anywhere near London for any reason what-so-ever.

Re: Ask HN: How to relocate to Europe as a software developer

#84

Post by wassenaar10 »

Not sure if this is helpful, but I'll give you my story.

I graduated from my CS undergrad degree in the USA in May of 2020. One of the job offers I had was from a relatively new tech company in Norway, and the offer was for an on-site position in Oslo. They had a booth at a recruiting event at my University (in Texas, if that matters) but I applied online like everyone else. After a couple of interview rounds, the last of which was in-person in Norway (seems surreal given the state of the world now), I received a job offer from them which I ultimately ended up not taking.

At the time of the offer I had two previous technical internships (neither of which were at well-known companies), a solid (>3.5) GPA, and a couple interesting side projects on my resume (e.g. compiler, android app game, NLP course projects). The technical interview portions were all pretty easy compared to what larger US-based tech companies will throw at you, but keep in mind that this was for an entry-level position. No Norwegian language skills were required for the postion.

I was offered the job as a US citizen, and though I had German citizenship (but no passport) at the time, I don't think that factored into me getting the offer. They had other international employees at the office, including one from Brazil, so I figured having citizenship in an EU-member country didn't matter that much. As you may know, Norway isn't in the EU itself but they do have a lot of economic/labor agreements with the EU.

Anyways, the (yearly) salary was something on the order of 590,000 kr or around 63,000 USD at the time, though the value of the Norwegian Krone has increased a good bit since I got the offer near the beginning of the corona economic downturn. As I understand that's about the expected salary for that sort of position in Oslo, so take from that what you will.

I had my own reasons for taking an offer in the US over one in Europe, but hopefully some of this info was helpful.

Re: Ask HN: How to relocate to Europe as a software developer

#86

Post by silicon2401 »

pajko wrote: post #81
silicon2401 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this apply for Germany, Austria, or Sweden? I speak German and have some familiarity with the (German) culture and country through a decade of study and a couple of visits. Less familiar with Sweden, but I fell in love with the country after visiting and was able to pick up some minimal understanding after studying it for a few months, so I don't think getting conversational would be too difficult.

Sweden is a bit over-bureaucratic. To get a work visa, you need a job. To get a job, you need a home address in Sweden. To rent something to get a home address, you need work visa and a job, and it takes a lot of paperwork to break this cycle. Also depending on the city finding an apartment to rent can take a lot of time [1]. Consider adding Czechia to your list. Nice place with good beer, and central enough to easil…

Thanks very much for the info! Moving internationally is difficult enough without the destination being particularly bureaucratic. Maybe I'll target Germany first and just travel to Sweden if I manage to live the dream and move to Europe for a time. I'll also check out Czechia, sounds interesting. thanks!

Re: Ask HN: How to relocate to Europe as a software developer

#87

Post by mam2 »

chx wrote: post #82
mam2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there not similar thing in estonia

Oh, I haven't seen that one, thanks for the pointer, it's also a new thing, started last August. https://e-resident.gov.ee/nomadvisa/ there's a monthly gross income threshold of €3504 so for struggling freelancers it's not going to work.

Well i didnt know the august thing.. but estonia has been doing nomad / digital stuff for a while so its not surprising.

Re: Ask HN: How to relocate to Europe as a software developer

#88

Post by thunkshift1 »

chx wrote: post #36

Croatia just started a program where you can stay for a year (instead of the usual 90 days) as a digital nomad. > A DIGITAL NOMAD IS a third-country national who is employed or performs work through communication technology for a company or his own company that is not registered in the Republic of Croatia and does not perform work or provide services to employers in the Republic of Croatia. https://www.croatia.hr/en-…

Do you have a source for Canada? Afaik that is not allowed

Re: Ask HN: How to relocate to Europe as a software developer

#89

Post by chx »

thunkshift1 wrote: post #88
chx wrote: post #36

Croatia just started a program where you can stay for a year (instead of the usual 90 days) as a digital nomad. > A DIGITAL NOMAD IS a third-country national who is employed or performs work through communication technology for a company or his own company that is not registered in the Republic of Croatia and does not perform work or provide services to employers in the Republic of Croatia. https://www.croatia.hr/en-…

Do you have a source for Canada? Afaik that is not allowed

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/co...

> What kind of activities are not considered to be “work”?

> long distance (by telephone or Internet) work done by a temporary resident whose employer is outside Canada and who is remunerated from outside Canada;

Re: Ask HN: How to relocate to Europe as a software developer

#90

Post by lormayna »

Jiejeing wrote: post #15
oji0hub wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't and the pay is fine. Don't act like a d** and you'll be fine.

To be fair, aside from perhaps very specific domains (e.g. finance) or corporations, the pay probably looks dismal if you compare it to SV levels. Making six figures is certainly something hard to reach. Ditto on the immigrants thing though, Germany is certainly not the worst country in that regard.

Comparing salaries in Germany to the ones in SV is a nonsense. In Germany you have free healtcare, free education and cost of living and renting is lower than SV. 120k in SV are like 60k in Germany.
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