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Ask HN: Advice for finding an entry-level remote job?

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Re: Ask HN: Advice for finding an entry-level remote job?

#81

Post by munk-a »

sokoloff wrote: post #67
cjohnson318 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pays well, and the learning curve is a bit lower I've done development and testing, and I would characterize QA as "same job, less pay". In both roles you struggle with vague requirements, lots of edge cases, and unrealistic deadlines. It is surprisingly difficult to get out of the QA pigeonhole. People assume the job is easier, and that you're not as capable as a developer.

QA and dev are not the same job IMO/IME. Simplified: QA is “the system should do this; does it do it?” Dev is “the system should do this; make it do it.” I’m not putting one above the other as both functions are needed for most successful companies. I am saying they’re not the same job.

I disagree in that I think neither position actually gets a "the system should do this" - Devs will put together a solution they think will fulfill a user request and QA has the difficult job of figuring out why-in-the-hell the dev thinks that's something a user will figure out. /s

More seriously there is a lot of differences between the two tracks but a QA person who can write clear and repeatable reproduction steps will save a company a whole bunch of dev hours and doing so usually requires a pretty good understanding of why the system is actually breaking.

Re: Ask HN: Advice for finding an entry-level remote job?

#83

Post by mdip »

rmk wrote: post #60
cjohnson318 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pays well, and the learning curve is a bit lower I've done development and testing, and I would characterize QA as "same job, less pay". In both roles you struggle with vague requirements, lots of edge cases, and unrealistic deadlines. It is surprisingly difficult to get out of the QA pigeonhole. People assume the job is easier, and that you're not as capable as a developer.

As a developer, I emphatically disagree about the "same job" aspect. QA requires a pretty different mindset, one which developers lack entirely. This is particularly true about testing things like storage appliances, routers, switches, and such. Putting such complex systems through their paces requires specialist QA folks, including loads of manual QA'ing in addition to heavy automated QA. That said, despite how crit…

I mostly agree with your statement and your issue with companies wishing to eliminate the QA budget (never a good idea).

But I question this bit: "QA Requires a pretty different mindset, one which developers lack entirely."

I don't think that's true. I've done both roles, successfully, at various times. The key, I've found, is that a developer can't test their own work. Developers of a project should also not be put in charge of testing each-others' work if they are working in close capacities. A QA strategy that begins and ends with "test your own stuff", "code/peer reviews" and "write unit tests" is going to reach a quality cliff as the complexity of the software increases. You can get away with it, sometimes, but it doesn't scale.

I'm not sure what the cause of this is, or if it can be improved (it can, but can it be completed eliminated?). It's a similar phenomenon to proof-reading your own work. You mentally add words that aren't there. You follow happy-paths in your software because you know what they are; you don't "misuse" your UI enough[0].

[0] One I think of often was when I wrote a UI for a desk conferencing device. I tested every aspect of it and it was returned to me shortly thereafter when the QA guy joined/exited about 15 "on demand" meetings as rapidly as possible throwing the UI into a state that couldn't be recovered from without rebooting the device.

Re: Ask HN: Advice for finding an entry-level remote job?

#84

Post by divbzero »

playingchanges wrote: post #43

One more angle since I haven’t seen anyone mention it. Instructions on how to bootstrap a software portfolio: Pick a language (sounds like you chose JS which would be my pick as well), buy a copy of cracking the coding interview, make a leetcode.com account, make a codepen.io account, and get to work. If you’re smart and dedicated you can teach yourself this stuff and these are the best tools to help you in my opinio…

> … how to bootstrap a software portfolio …

This is how I got my first job in the industry. I built software and websites to solve problems that I personally found useful. Though the solutions were (in retrospect) rather unpolished, they were good enough that a team saw some potential and were generous enough to take a chance on me.

Re: Ask HN: Advice for finding an entry-level remote job?

#85

Post by [deleted] »

munk-a wrote: post #81
sokoloff wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

QA and dev are not the same job IMO/IME. Simplified: QA is “the system should do this; does it do it?” Dev is “the system should do this; make it do it.” I’m not putting one above the other as both functions are needed for most successful companies. I am saying they’re not the same job.

I disagree in that I think neither position actually gets a "the system should do this" - Devs will put together a solution they think will fulfill a user request and QA has the difficult job of figuring out why-in-the-hell the dev thinks that's something a user will figure out. /s More seriously there is a lot of differences between the two tracks but a QA person who can write clear and repeatable reproduction steps…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Advice for finding an entry-level remote job?

#86

Post by samtheprogram »

grumpwagon wrote: post #11

I'd highly encourage you to continue learning to code. You might also consider software QA. It is also easy to do remotely, pays well, and the learning curve is a bit lower. If you learned selenium, the ability to navigate a SQL database, postman to test REST APIs, and some testing terms and methods you'd be well on your way. The first job will be the hardest to get, but once you have that, remote jobs are readily av…

I’ve been on projects with non-developer (but technical) QA that would barely go as far as diving into development tools... the pay for those team members was extremely low, but they were foreigners and the pay was still above minimum wage. If you wanted to be pedantic, these were, simply put, just testers.

With that in mind, I think OP immediately has a shot on job boards for such a position if priced correctly — especially with the added perk of great written English / better communication.

EDIT: that’s not to say they should not learn to code; agree with your general sentiment, but I think growing in that sense shouldn’t be a barrier to entry.

Re: Ask HN: Advice for finding an entry-level remote job?

#87

Post by LegitShady »

leesalminen wrote: post #80
ux-app wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to derail the conversation, but I'd love to hear more about gingrapp. What made you choose this niche, what were the early days like?

Well, I had recently adopted an Australian Cattle Dog puppy but had a full time in-office job. They’re a very active breed and leaving her at home all day wasn’t an option. That prompted me to find a dog daycare, something I had never heard of (and honestly thought was slightly ridiculous). When checking out the first day, I noticed their business was a mess. Everything on paper, in messy stacks at the front desk. An…

congrats and thanks for sharing

Re: Ask HN: Advice for finding an entry-level remote job?

#88

Post by Igelau »

rmk wrote: post #60
cjohnson318 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pays well, and the learning curve is a bit lower I've done development and testing, and I would characterize QA as "same job, less pay". In both roles you struggle with vague requirements, lots of edge cases, and unrealistic deadlines. It is surprisingly difficult to get out of the QA pigeonhole. People assume the job is easier, and that you're not as capable as a developer.

As a developer, I emphatically disagree about the "same job" aspect. QA requires a pretty different mindset, one which developers lack entirely. This is particularly true about testing things like storage appliances, routers, switches, and such. Putting such complex systems through their paces requires specialist QA folks, including loads of manual QA'ing in addition to heavy automated QA. That said, despite how crit…

> QA requires a pretty different mindset, one which developers lack entirely.

This place cracks me up sometimes :)

Re: Ask HN: Advice for finding an entry-level remote job?

#89

Post by mceoin »

Hi Anon,

Since you have limited time to find a remote job and nobody has mentioned it yet: HTML/CSS still pays pretty well, is fast to learn, and may be even easier to get paid for than Javascript or other coding work since a lot of "better developers" do not want to do it. I would start by building yourself a personal website and using that as your portfolio, and then expand that portfolio as quickly as you can while hustling for work.

On the hustle side, if you're looking for an entry level job in tech that you can do remotely and doesn't require much experience, you can also use Google Maps and Google to get lists of consulting shops in every major city in America (dev, design, marketing, etc.) and just work your way down the list until you have sent a brief email to every single one of them letting them know that you're looking for work.

Plenty of other techniques in this thread as well.

Getting your foot in the door is the hardest part. Good luck!

Re: Ask HN: Advice for finding an entry-level remote job?

#90

Post by hypersundays »

If you do documentation editing well, you might try and look for a role as a technical writer or freelance as one.

Other than that, I would keep improving documentation on open source where you can and should. Then highlight that work as much as you can on your resume.

I wish you the best of luck and hope that you find your start!

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