Ask HN: Relocating to London After Brexit • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Relocating to London After Brexit

#81

Post by thr0waway2 » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 8:40 PM UTC

ben_w wrote: post #78

rich_sasha wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks moved a skeletal staff to EU offices already a long time ago, and no one else. As far as regulated business goes, it was clear from the start pretty much that there will be no passporting. The extent of other regulatory burdens remains unclear. The point is, unless some highly unexpected new regulation comes in, it looks like banks at least kept the business and decision making in London, and only moved enough…

> Funds for sure seem to have stay put in London, some moved but this is definitely a minority. I’ve seen it reported that £1 trillion of assets were being moved out. Was that report incorrect, or was it a misleading number that is somehow vastly less relevant than it appears at first glance? https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/20/business/brexit-economy-b...

Assets != jobs

Re: Ask HN: Relocating to London After Brexit

#82

Post by thr0waway2 » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

patrickdet wrote: post #23

0xy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London beats any European city by a substantial amount, even including cost of living. I don't see why that would change. Switzerland as you point out has similarly high wages. I can't see innovation, talent or companies moving to the EU at any stage. It's a regulatory horror show and has massive brain drain to places that actually pay developers reasonable wages. Developers in Sweden are paid the equivalent of 51k U…

> Developers in the EU get shafted big time. Free health insurance is not worth half, or even one-third the salary. It’s called solidarity

Financiers in London are paid similar to financiers in NYC, it's not about solidarity, it's about supply and demand. And forces of supply and demand are not working in developers' favour in European countries. I myself switched from being a quant dev to a trader within a large bank (and now a fund) and the work is a lot more interesting/rewarding and better paid.

Re: Ask HN: Relocating to London After Brexit

#83

Post by foldr » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #77

foldr wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>On the flip side, finance was thought to leave London en masse, and didn’t It's a bit early to say, isn't it? Finance is still working under temporary arrangements. Most of the regulations regarding services remain to be negotiated.

Banks moved a skeletal staff to EU offices already a long time ago, and no one else. As far as regulated business goes, it was clear from the start pretty much that there will be no passporting. The extent of other regulatory burdens remains unclear. The point is, unless some highly unexpected new regulation comes in, it looks like banks at least kept the business and decision making in London, and only moved enough…

It would hardly make sense to move more than a skeletal staff before the terms are known. I think we will have to wait and see.

It's also questionable in the long run whether the EU will permit all of these transactions to take place if the bank has only a token presence within the EU. At the moment everything is happening under temporary authorization.

Re: Ask HN: Relocating to London After Brexit

#84

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 9:17 PM UTC

pasabagi wrote: post #55

orange_tee wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US is a nation of immigrants where you can basically fully integrate in a matter of months. In non-English speaking countries this is impossible. If you put a lot of weight on fraternity and equality you have to consider that if you move to France or Germany you will always be "that foreigner who moved here". Just something more to consider. Although I do agree also with your post.

You're absolutely right. There are, however, bubbles - I don't know about France, but there are few cities in Germany where you aren't made to feel 'foreign' unless you go to a government office or something. Of course you do occasionally bump into racists, and the concept of integration in Germany is, well, 'assimilation' (literally), but like most countries in Europe, it's very variable.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Relocating to London After Brexit

#85

Post by rich_sasha » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

ben_w wrote: post #78

rich_sasha wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks moved a skeletal staff to EU offices already a long time ago, and no one else. As far as regulated business goes, it was clear from the start pretty much that there will be no passporting. The extent of other regulatory burdens remains unclear. The point is, unless some highly unexpected new regulation comes in, it looks like banks at least kept the business and decision making in London, and only moved enough…

> Funds for sure seem to have stay put in London, some moved but this is definitely a minority. I’ve seen it reported that £1 trillion of assets were being moved out. Was that report incorrect, or was it a misleading number that is somehow vastly less relevant than it appears at first glance? https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/20/business/brexit-economy-b...

Assets are often held somewhere very different than the jobs, business, taxes etc. Banking licenses for example require holding enough capital in the jurisdiction to cover for unexpected shocks. But where the decisions physically take place is a whole different question.

In practice, for the Brexit/London question, it seems London banks set up small offices in the continent to ask as a front for regulators and EU clients, moved capital as necessary, but kept all significant business in London - so far at least.

Remember, this is finance, capital is transferred via a wire. It’s not mining, real estate or farming.

Re: Ask HN: Relocating to London After Brexit

#86

Post by ben_w » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 10:02 PM UTC

thr0waway2 wrote: post #81

ben_w wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Funds for sure seem to have stay put in London, some moved but this is definitely a minority. I’ve seen it reported that £1 trillion of assets were being moved out. Was that report incorrect, or was it a misleading number that is somehow vastly less relevant than it appears at first glance? https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/20/business/brexit-economy-b...

Assets != jobs

Didn’t say they were. Are “funds” not assets? Because that would be another explanation I had not previously considered.

Re: Ask HN: Relocating to London After Brexit

#87

Post by ben_w » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 10:09 PM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #85

ben_w wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Funds for sure seem to have stay put in London, some moved but this is definitely a minority. I’ve seen it reported that £1 trillion of assets were being moved out. Was that report incorrect, or was it a misleading number that is somehow vastly less relevant than it appears at first glance? https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/20/business/brexit-economy-b...

Assets are often held somewhere very different than the jobs, business, taxes etc. Banking licenses for example require holding enough capital in the jurisdiction to cover for unexpected shocks. But where the decisions physically take place is a whole different question. In practice, for the Brexit/London question, it seems London banks set up small offices in the continent to ask as a front for regulators and EU cli…

Your answer, while interesting, hasn’t changed my confusion.

When you wrote that “funds” mostly stayed put, what do you mean by “fund”? An ELI5 style explanation would be great, because to me (with no economics/finance qualifications) a “fund” is the money.

Re: Ask HN: Relocating to London After Brexit

#88

Post by sofixa » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 10:11 PM UTC

0xy wrote: post #61

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finland, Sweden, and Denmark have a much healthier startup scene than the UK does. You can also go further afield and explore places like Lisbon, which have a growing buzz. In some ways they have a much healthier startup scene than SV does. You won't earn $400k - guaranteed until the restructuring and breakup layoffs hit - but you will be happier and less stressed, and your kids will be too. And you won't be living i…

I don't think you can speak for everyone when you claim not to care about literally millions of dollars in lost opportunity by not living in a country that doesn't shaft you. It's millions. The delta between the average US salary and the average EU salary is gigantic, and if invested in a conservative investment portfolio consisting of index funds means by choosing to live in the EU you're willingly giving up many mi…

> When I'm retired, I don't want to be broke and penniless and I certainly wouldn't be thinking that the free healthcare I received was worth the amount I was scammed.

> On what planet is healthcare worth many millions of dollars? It's not worth it. You're better off by any calculation in the US. Substantially so.

You're missing pensions, which EU countries have, which mean in most cases you won't find yourself broke and penniless when you retire. And work hours, which are substantially less. And vacation time, which is literally multiple times more ( 5 weeks paid minimum in France for instance), and "unlimited sick time" ( it's sick there's even such a concept in the US). What good are your millions if you have to wait to retirement to actually use them, being too busy working 60 hour weeks? Or having to go into work sick? Or ffs, after the birth of a child?

Re: Ask HN: Relocating to London After Brexit

#89

Post by marcinzm » Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 11:57 PM UTC

pasabagi wrote: post #70

marcinzm wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you're planning on living in a kind of bubble, and just ignore the wider social context, you don't really need to live in a functioning society. Your example is also about a bubble. It's not social context but your own personal sense of happiness that you're talking about as I see it. You can have clean streets and little crime but be a dystopian society. Singapore and Japan come to mind. Muslim refugees in Franc…

You might be right - that said, there's no comparison when it comes to poverty between where I live now (east germany) and where I come from (London). Poor people in London are simply far more poor, even though London is far more wealthy than east Germany. What I was initially pointing at was, if you think about the portion of pay one gets, and the portion of pay that goes to the state, I think high taxation is often…

>That's a tangible freedom that I can buy with my paycheck, and he cannot really buy with his.

Sure he can, his multiple well armed guards will ensure he is safe even in the worst part of LA at 4am. He also has multiple homes and I guarantee you that his suburban homes have little crime around them. Cities aren't primarily where the well off live in the US and the places they do live are very safe.

Re: Ask HN: Relocating to London After Brexit

#90

Post by adav » Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 1:56 AM UTC

burnthrow wrote: post #72

adav wrote: post #50

Too early to tell. If you’re coming from a less well-off country and have the flexibility to take advantage of any post-Brexit easier immigration flux, I’d definitely take the risk and go for it. If you’re coming from a country that’s roughly as prosperous and have some luxury of time, I’d delay any decision by at least a year. There will most likely still be more opportunity in London than anywhere else in Europe, b…

> post-Brexit easier immigration flux Care to elaborate?

There are brand new immigration protocols coming with the introduction of a points-based system. Plus the "Home Office will continue to refine the system in the light of experience and will consider adding further flexibility into the system..." [1]. I read that as points for various characteristics could vary quickly. Also the option to apply for the EU Settlement Scheme remains until mid-2021 if someone moved very recently.

Sure, that's just two avenues that jump to mind. There may be many more less orthodox routes that appear as the dust settles. We're witnessing a major shift in the status quo.

[1] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-uks-points-ba...