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Ask HN: Best resources for non-technical founders to understand hacker mindset?

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Re: Ask HN: Best resources for non-technical founders to understand hacker mindset?

#81

Post by m463 »

A few tips:

Lots of hackers are introverts. They are wired differently from founders and ceos (who have gravitated towards a life full of constant interactions with people). Hackers don't mind being "in the zone" for hours at a time to work on a problem. Sometimes this means coding, but sometimes this just means having enough quiet time to just sit an think while they turn a problem over in their mind. This is required.

Another side to the introvert thing -- I believe "open plan seating" is a fundamental disconnect between extroverted decision-makers and introverted knowledge workers. It is not surprising to me that productivity has skyrocketed for problem-solvers working from home.

Another tip is to ask "what do you think?" then listen. Then wait even longer and listen some more. The absolute best business people I've worked with were masters of this. The worst would already have made decisions and questions were just checkboxes.

(this works everywhere in life, but is particularly relevant to the really smart people at the top of the tech tree)

also, hacker doesn't mean criminals who break into computers. Go with the original meaning (well, the one after carriage driver)

reading:

https://stallman.org/articles/on-hacking.html

Re: Ask HN: Best resources for non-technical founders to understand hacker mindset?

#82

Post by jonahbenton »

Myrmornis wrote: post #80
jonahbenton wrote: post #76

I'm with the people asking "why." There is almost no real reason for a business side founder to "grok" a hacker mindset. If hackers/developers are the business' customer, then the business owner just needs to find ones to talk to. Forgive the directness but what I hear in the way the question above is framed is that there is actually some communication misalignment between the tech founder- who considers himself to h…

I don't think I agree with this. I think what the poster is looking for is how to help the more businessy founder understand the engineers that (s)he's necessarily going to be hiring and working with. That strikes me as a perfectly sensible and worthwhile goal and one that will probably help their start up have a healthy culture in its early months/years.

Yeah, could be, but if that were the problem, my guess is that the question would be different. How do I help my business founder understand what to look for and value when hiring, etc.

The issue is that OP question is an answer to the real question, which goes unasked.

Cheers.

Re: Ask HN: Best resources for non-technical founders to understand hacker mindset?

#84

Post by sudosteph »

akerl_ wrote: post #70
peter_d_sherman wrote: post #58

Let me sum up all possible books about understanding the "hacker" (terrible word by the way, because of multiple meanings, which meaning are we talking about?) mindset, to a management perspective: 1) True "hackers" value knowledge over money. 2) True "hackers" value doing things once and doing them right, no matter how long that takes. (Compare to the business mindset of "we need it now", or "we needed it yesterday"…

I’m not a hacker if I’d rather hack together something quickly, even if it’s a bit hacky? That would seem to violate your #2 rule for “true” “hackers”. Or if I like hacking my way through a problem instead of doing it the expected way? That would seem to violate #4. And I’m not a “true” “hacker” if I want to make money? I thought I was a hacker. But if this is what hackers are, I’m pretty ok with being voted off the…

You're still a hacker. The parent comment is conflating engineers (by which I mean, like the kind of people who design bridges and critical infrastructure - not just the title given to anyone who can code) with hackers. Think of it this way. Almost all engineers are hackers, but the majority of hackers are not engineers.

Tons of hackers don't give a flying fuck about the "right way" to do something. Hackers are just the people who decide to apply their personal agency and creative talents towards building, altering, breaking and fixing things. There is no unifying motivation for doing so (though admittedly, curiosity is more common than money as a motivator), nor any standardized way of engaging in the process.

Re: Ask HN: Best resources for non-technical founders to understand hacker mindset?

#85

Post by akerl_ »

sudosteph wrote: post #84
akerl_ wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a hacker if I’d rather hack together something quickly, even if it’s a bit hacky? That would seem to violate your #2 rule for “true” “hackers”. Or if I like hacking my way through a problem instead of doing it the expected way? That would seem to violate #4. And I’m not a “true” “hacker” if I want to make money? I thought I was a hacker. But if this is what hackers are, I’m pretty ok with being voted off the…

You're still a hacker. The parent comment is conflating engineers (by which I mean, like the kind of people who design bridges and critical infrastructure - not just the title given to anyone who can code) with hackers. Think of it this way. Almost all engineers are hackers, but the majority of hackers are not engineers. Tons of hackers don't give a flying fuck about the "right way" to do something. Hackers are just…

I pretty wholeheartedly agree with your 2nd paragraph.

Regarding your first, I have similar concerns about this gatekeeping of “engineers”. Civil engineers and the like have much more stringent regulations and much more weight put onto correctness, but they aren’t required to prize correctness-for-its-own-sake, or think of their work like art, or be doing the work for its own sake rather than money.

I’m pretty confident that attempting to ascribe a unified motive to any group is a mistake.

Re: Ask HN: Best resources for non-technical founders to understand hacker mindset?

#86

Post by omniscient_oce »

jonahbenton wrote: post #76

I'm with the people asking "why." There is almost no real reason for a business side founder to "grok" a hacker mindset. If hackers/developers are the business' customer, then the business owner just needs to find ones to talk to. Forgive the directness but what I hear in the way the question above is framed is that there is actually some communication misalignment between the tech founder- who considers himself to h…

How do you even define a 'hacker mindset' anyway. It seems too hard to really pin down a definition so I'm not sure it's worth the time anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Best resources for non-technical founders to understand hacker mindset?

#87

Post by gundmc »

m463 wrote: post #81

A few tips: Lots of hackers are introverts. They are wired differently from founders and ceos (who have gravitated towards a life full of constant interactions with people). Hackers don't mind being "in the zone" for hours at a time to work on a problem. Sometimes this means coding, but sometimes this just means having enough quiet time to just sit an think while they turn a problem over in their mind. This is requir…

> It is not surprising to me that productivity has skyrocketed for problem-solvers working from home.

Do you have a source with data to back that up? The early indicators of the efficacy of WFH that I've seen have been pretty mixed.

Re: Ask HN: Best resources for non-technical founders to understand hacker mindset?

#88

Post by vogelke »

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/0932633420/

The Psychology of Computer Programming

by Gerald M. Weinberg

Written in 1971, and still completely relevant. Topics include egoless programming, intelligence, psychological measurement, personality factors, motivation, training, social problems on large projects, problem-solving ability, programming language design, team formation, the programming environment, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Best resources for non-technical founders to understand hacker mindset?

#89

Post by westurner »

peter_d_sherman wrote: post #58

Let me sum up all possible books about understanding the "hacker" (terrible word by the way, because of multiple meanings, which meaning are we talking about?) mindset, to a management perspective: 1) True "hackers" value knowledge over money. 2) True "hackers" value doing things once and doing them right, no matter how long that takes. (Compare to the business mindset of "we need it now", or "we needed it yesterday"…

> 3) True "hackers" value taking ownership in their work, that is, whatever they work on becomes an extension of themselves, much like an artist working on a work of art

There's something to be said about owning your work, but I have to disagree that unhealthy attachment to work products is a universal attribute of technical founder hackers. It's not a kid, it's a thing that was supposed to be the best use of the resources and information available at the time.

I must have confused this point with vanity and retention in projecting my own counterproductive anti-patterns.

Prolific is not the objective for a true hacker, but not me but a guy I know mentioned something about starting projects and seeing the next 5 years of potentially happily working on that project, too.

Re: Ask HN: Best resources for non-technical founders to understand hacker mindset?

#90

Post by m463 »

gundmc wrote: post #87
m463 wrote: post #81

A few tips: Lots of hackers are introverts. They are wired differently from founders and ceos (who have gravitated towards a life full of constant interactions with people). Hackers don't mind being "in the zone" for hours at a time to work on a problem. Sometimes this means coding, but sometimes this just means having enough quiet time to just sit an think while they turn a problem over in their mind. This is requir…

> It is not surprising to me that productivity has skyrocketed for problem-solvers working from home. Do you have a source with data to back that up? The early indicators of the efficacy of WFH that I've seen have been pretty mixed.

Hmmm... I don't have proof, just anecdotal. And of course, everyone who likes working from home will mention that their productivity is up (self-selection).
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