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Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

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Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#81

Post by shultays »

caseysoftware wrote: post #31
enz wrote: post #4

If your project is OSS, what prevents them from taking it and "force you" (as an employee) to work on it anyway? Maybe a restrictive license may help: if your company takes the code and modify it, make them under the obligation of releasing the source code too. What is the current license of your project? Ultimately, nothing prevents you from deleting your public Git repo. You can decide that your project is not avai…

If they have even a debatable claim on the code (probably not but are you 100% sure?), then deleting it is destroying their property. That's a quick way to have a miserable life (getting fired, sued, blacklisted among peers, etc).

If it is a sude project that is related to your work I would say that is a good case for tge company (ianal though)

At least you are using the know how you gained during your work

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#82

Post by zzo38computer »

yolo42 wrote: post #22
masukomi wrote: post #18

> I created product on the side as a side project in my own time and it has become a huge hit in the community to a point where my employers wants me to transfer the code-base over. The company does OSS and my side-project is also Open-Source. Let me restate this: You had an idea you were so interested in you created it in your off time. You made it open source. Your company likes it so much they want to contribute t…

It is not that they want me to spend work time on it. They want me to transfer ownership of the project to them. That's the part that I do not wish to do. The way things work at this place, I'll probably end up maintaining the product until I leave my job. The reason for not transferring over is that once I do that, they will essentially not let me create features that I think can be done better using my product, bec…

Are you able to fork it? If so, there is then the issue of who gets to keep the name of the project. Also if you fork it, then now you will maintain two versions of the software (until you quit your job at that company), so that is another consideration. (It is also possible that the versions will not diverge right away, but might simply be a copy until there is some disagreement about what to do with it.)

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#83

Post by kd5bjo »

It’s important to understand both why you want to retain ownership and why the company wants to have ownership. It’s entirely possible that there’s some arrangement that satisfies everyone’s needs. For example, you may be able to get them to agree that it will remain open-source in perpetuity and that your name remains prominently attached to it for as long as you feel comfortable with the project’s direction, but no longer.

I’ll also second all of the suggestions to talk with a lawyer, not to go on the attack but to verify that whatever agreement you come to actually gives you the rights that you think it does— as you’ve discovered, small clauses in contracts can have big, unexpected effects.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#84

Post by tlear »

yolo42 wrote: post #46
nl wrote: post #32

What kind of outcome do you want? Most of the responses here concentrate on trying to get some kind of financial return for your work. That's important, but for you it might not be the most important thing (you were giving it away and working on it in your spare time, right?) Consider asking to make it your full time job, or something like that. You clearly know the field well, and you've managed to build community.…

> What kind of outcome do you want? I wish I knew myself better. Maintenance and taking the product forward will naturally become part of my job, so that's a given (and I'm happy about it). What can I ask more for is what I'm trying to figure out and having a hard time. I'm generally creative with software and products but I'm really bad when it comes to negotiations and figuring out a good barter. I absolutely don't…

Many lawyers are very good at negotiating. It is part of the job, in many corporate deals idea is not to fuck the counter party but come up with everyone is sort of happy solution.

If you are in Canada I can recommend someone who is good, former software engineer and does IP law.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#86

Post by charlesdm »

Agreed, this is a legal issue. Consult a lawyer. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING! If they insist, let them know you are consulting with a lawyer.

If they pressure you to sign documents then consider that they don't have your best interests at heart. Depending on the company their position could either end up being very friendly, or very unfriendly towards you.

Also remember that, if you feel this is a project with great potential, it might be worth quitting your job over.

The legal position will be different depending on the jurisdiction you are based in. The laws of Belgium are different to those in say, Delaware.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#87

Post by rkagerer »

yolo42 wrote: post #49
relaunched wrote: post #23

Find a lawyer, ASAP, that specializes in employment and / or IP. This is a legal issue and you need to solve it with people that know the law. Talking, signing, admitting things, etc, only hurt you. Depending on your country and state, as well as your employment agreement, there are a lot of impactful variables. Intuition and personal relationships are not going to help you solve this issue, especially, absent knowin…

Thank you for the comment! I totally get what you and other threads are trying to say and I don't disagree with what you are saying. I probably should have cleared this out in my original post (my bad) that I do not wish to pursue the legal route. I personally feel that in my case, it will just drain everyone's energy for not much gain at the end. Also, personal relationships matter to me as well. I'm trying to find…

You really should consult with an IP lawyer, for all the reasons mentioned here.

You may have to reset your expectations about walking away with both compensation AND control.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#88

Post by pjc50 »

yolo42 wrote: post #22
masukomi wrote: post #18

> I created product on the side as a side project in my own time and it has become a huge hit in the community to a point where my employers wants me to transfer the code-base over. The company does OSS and my side-project is also Open-Source. Let me restate this: You had an idea you were so interested in you created it in your off time. You made it open source. Your company likes it so much they want to contribute t…

It is not that they want me to spend work time on it. They want me to transfer ownership of the project to them. That's the part that I do not wish to do. The way things work at this place, I'll probably end up maintaining the product until I leave my job. The reason for not transferring over is that once I do that, they will essentially not let me create features that I think can be done better using my product, bec…

So then the real question is who maintains creative control over the project. But if you're project lead for it , that would be you?

It sounds like there's a lot of "politics" that you're unaware of or not mentioned. Is the project actually in competition with one of your company's products? If they're an open source company, how do they handle community governance and contributions? Do they normally make contributors sign over copyright, like the FSF?

Why do you think there would be conflict over features?

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#89

Post by charlesdm »

thayne wrote: post #72
batoure wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always always always talk to a lawyer. If your dog walker (at the peak of their career) friend was like “I need a website” you wouldn’t be like “learn JavaScript” you would say find a programmer. If I had 10 dollars for every time I had to spend weeks convincing an engineer friend to talk to an attorney and then when they finally did it got dealt with in 30 minutes... Lawyers are just “full stack law architects” do y…

I find kneejerk advice to consult lawyers for anything that concerns the law frustrating for two reasons: 1. It never seems to be accompanied with advice on how to find the appropriate kind of lawyer. 2. It almost always seems to ignore the fact that lawyers are expensive. Sure, there are times when that cost is warranted, but I don't think it is right to ignore it. For example, in this case, it is probably only wort…

If this isn't a situation to consult a lawyer on, then I don't know what is. He needs an IP lawyer with notions of employment law of the jurisdiction he's in.

If a company wants to formally acquire the rights to the IP.. it's safe to say it's worth something.

Re: Ask HN: My company wants my side project. What can I do?

#90

Post by NetOpWibby »

brandnewlow wrote: post #69
relaunched wrote: post #23

Find a lawyer, ASAP, that specializes in employment and / or IP. This is a legal issue and you need to solve it with people that know the law. Talking, signing, admitting things, etc, only hurt you. Depending on your country and state, as well as your employment agreement, there are a lot of impactful variables. Intuition and personal relationships are not going to help you solve this issue, especially, absent knowin…

Have used George Grellas (longtime HN poster) for things like this in the past and been very happy: http://grellas.com/

Thanks, bookmarked.
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