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Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

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Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#81

Post by reelgeek »

KuraFire wrote: post #29
jashkenas wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Unless, perhaps, you're at MobileMe" -- sounds like you've got some gossip to get off your chest. Anything you care to share?

Not at all. It was just difficult to find the same kind of satisfaction in your work when other parts of the product fail so spectacularly. The MobileMe launch was a widely known failure, and the effects of that (and the problems) went on for a long time. Still today, there are many (legitimate) complaints about MobileMe, and such things impact one's satisfaction quite a lot.

Well job satisfaction with a department really depends on if you're actually doing the work requested and the terms on which you left (or were terminated, right?) Not that I had a love affair with MMe at the end of my job, but that had to do with the policies that Apple employs in terms of mass communication of pre-release products, and not with the level of talent in the existing team.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#83

Post by rimantas »

rahoulb wrote: post #73
epynonymous wrote: post #28

but i think the author's got a point, you never hear about any stalwarts of software dev defecting to apple, do you?

no never. not jordan hubbard, not dominic giampolo. no-one.

I was thinking about Ivan Krstić, but he did not really defect to Apple.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#84

Post by geebee »

This is a really interesting question, and got me thinking - maybe google's brutal interview process has a secondary purpose - to increase the allure of working at google?

This reminds me of a business case I read once about the difference between Mac Donalds and Burger King. That Mac Donalds uses a batch processing method that is faster but requires a higher skill level, whereas BK uses an assembly line, and that this affects their advertising. MacD's ads often double as recruiting ads, whereas BK tends to emphasize "have it your way" (easier to customize when you make burgers one at a time).

Maybe Google wants to interview more people than necessary, and subject them to an interview that leaves them thinking "man, you need to be at the top of your game to work there!" as a way of increasing the prestige of working there (and perhaps getting more top applicants?)

The thing is, I don't really see why this strategy would apply more to google than apple (unlike the MD vs BK thing...)

One thing is sure - devs are all aware of google's notorious interview process, but we (well, I should really just speak for myself, so I) never really hear these stories about apple.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#85

Post by alanstorm »

nostrademons wrote: post #76
dawsdesign wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like personal preference. This site is for natural selection. If people are interested in it then it will get voted up. Voted Up because I've often wondered it myself

It's kinda interesting, though, that when this site was founded almost 4 years ago, everything was about "What's it like to work for a startup?" And now, everything is apparently "What's it like to work for Google/Facebook/Apple?" I wonder if that's a symptom of HN's widening userbase, or if it's a sign of the times. Back in 2007, the startup market was very glutted, and a lot of people (including myself) were foundi…

Don't forget that some of the original Hacker News user base is getting older and deciding to try out new things. Working for a large technology company, even if you ultimately want to strike out on your own, is a good experience and can teach you a lot of thing you're not going to learn at a startup or small business (simply because you'll never encounter them)

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#87

Post by _delirium »

rahoulb wrote: post #77
nostrademons wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who?

Tsk, young people today. No idea of history (where history == about ten years ago)

It could be that it's not as common currently? I may have just missed it, but I haven't noticed any high-profile moves to Apple in the past 2-3 years, contrary to the situation with people moving around between Microsoft, Google, and Facebook.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#88

Post by jacquesm »

alanstorm wrote: post #85
nostrademons wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kinda interesting, though, that when this site was founded almost 4 years ago, everything was about "What's it like to work for a startup?" And now, everything is apparently "What's it like to work for Google/Facebook/Apple?" I wonder if that's a symptom of HN's widening userbase, or if it's a sign of the times. Back in 2007, the startup market was very glutted, and a lot of people (including myself) were foundi…

Don't forget that some of the original Hacker News user base is getting older and deciding to try out new things. Working for a large technology company, even if you ultimately want to strike out on your own, is a good experience and can teach you a lot of thing you're not going to learn at a startup or small business (simply because you'll never encounter them)

> Don't forget that some of the original Hacker News user base is getting older and deciding to try out new things.

I think for the most part that it is because they're simply leaving.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#89

Post by foljs »

coliveira wrote: post #62
seltzered wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually understood the one-button mouse idea recently. It forces software developers to try not to hide all the useful features behind right-click menus, but figure out how to consistently lead a user to where they want to go. User Story: My wifi wasn't working on my windows laptop the other day, I knew there was some nice "troubleshoot network" button, but I could not find it for the life of me every time i click…

> It forces software developers to try not to hide all the useful features except that in the Mac you can option-click, which is even more complicated than a right click. There is always a way to make features obscure, if you want to.

>except that in the Mac you can option-click, which is even >more complicated than a right click. There is always a way >to make features obscure, if you want to.

Emm, I think you missed his point. This is EXACTLY why the single button mouse forced software developers to make it work with a single click --because it made the "right click" equivalent more difficult for the user.

Re: Ask HN: Why does no one talk about working or interviewing for Apple?

#90

Post by adamtj »

funkah wrote: post #72
adamtj wrote: post #38

Whether it's intentional or coincidence, it's interesting how it parallels their products. There are approximately three people who work for Apple. They are the shiny, slick interface. Everything else is an implementation detail. Jonathan Ive is like OS X. Nobody knows how OS X actually works, but they know the name and that it is why their screen shows such pretty things.

What makes you say nobody knows how OS X actually works? The developer documents aren't a big batch of jokes, they describe how the system works. Also take a look at "Mac OS X Internals" by Amit Singh, there's more about the inner workings of OS X there than you could ever possibly care to know.

When I say nobody, I mean no normal people. By posting here, you automatically exclude yourself from that group. Your mom doesn't know how OS X works.
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