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Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

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Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#81

Post by nostrebored »

_zskd wrote: post #72

I've responded to this sort if inquiry before, so forgive the copy-pasta: >> You sound like you have anxiety problems. What have you done to address your anti-social tendencies? Are you going to a therapist? Do you expect a fairy to fly into your house and magic them away? What job do you think exists where you don't need these skills? >> Having a therapist does not mean you are crazy, and you don't NEED to be crazy…

Can't upvote this enough. Treating your social aversion like an immutable feature is ridiculous.

If we had a dev who's bad at coding but good at other tasks, what would we do, say that they're just innately untalented or that they need practice?

The fact of the matter is that devs are allowed to be complacent about social behavior through most of the social groups we run in and through our work. We're seen as antisocial because it's a muscle we don't flex.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#82

Post by hyperpape »

ThePadawan wrote: post #67
AchieveLife wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, the book is over-hyped and not that helpful. It's incredibly easy to spot people who utilize concepts in that book and are not being genuine in their interaction. 'Masks' are a great way to prevent authentic connection. I've found better utility in a combination of books about positive psychology, emotions in relationships, and analytical psychology.

I've often tried to find better methods of communicating with people, but I'm still struggling with one major problem: What do you do when someone literally does not react to anything you say in any way whatsoever? I could tell them "Yeah, X sounds like a great idea!" or "Please don't do that, I think X would be very harmful to the project", and their reaction would be the same "OK thanks, guess I'll go do X now". Th…

You have two choices, either of which may be right in the circumstance:

1. You can talk to them directly, and say "I feel like we're not on the same page when we talk about X,Y,Z [what can we do to come to an agreement]/[why do you keep doing that?]" (the bracketed parts depend on who has what authority).

2. You bring it up with your manager.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#83

Post by watwut »

nikk1 wrote: post #4

Definitely read How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. However, just reading a book on this subject is not enough. You will actually have to apply the principles in your everyday life. Dealing with people is kind of like an art. And just like any art (like painting) you can only get better with deliberate practice. Doing this might feel a little uncomfortable at first, but it's how we grow as peopl…

Careful about it through. People who use those trics too apparently easily make impression of untrustworthy manipulator.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#84

Post by creep »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #55
mrdoops wrote: post #47

Lift some weights. It might seem unrelated, but it's very crucial to improving your ability to deal with anxiety of all kinds. If you don't have experience around weight training equipment, then pay for small group training. Not only will you get a low-stakes opportunity to practice socializing, but the weight training will improve your testosterone production and your ability to regulate anxiety. I should've done sm…

How does lifting weights teach OP about office politics? Seems tangentially related at best...

Going to the gym is daunting for a person with social anxiety and/or autism.

It's often loud, crowded, and besides that it's filled with complicated machines you have to learn about before using.

When I walk into a gym my brainstem screams: "fucking RUN".

Pushing yourself to exercise in front of people who seem more powerful and more confident than you is a good way to gtfo of your comfort zone-- and it's a low-risk way to do so. Because while it seems like a big deal to potentially make a fool out of yourself at the gym, it's not and nobody actually cares about the skinny guy in the corner fumbling around with the leg press, and most of those people you will never see again. The people you do see again have an essential but implicit bond to you: you're all trying to improve your physicality. Everyone there was once a beginner. Zero risk.

You can translate any confidence gained at the gym to the workplace. It shows up in the way you walk and the way you carry yourself in general, and you become less fearful of situations that look, at first, to be very high risk.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#85

Post by ravenstine »

jondubois wrote: post #32

It's easy. - Lie - Cheat - Take credit for other people's work. - Deflect blame to other people. - Make friends with other jerks in the company and collaborate with them to distort facts in your favor at the expense of value creators within the company. - Once you climb high enough in the hierarchy, start using your 'friends' as scapegoats for everything that goes wrong; you gotta keep feeding the beast... Even when…

People are going to downvote you because it makes them feel bad, but I've seen people advance like that IRL.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#86

Post by watwut »

I would suggest to read up on requirements gathering, analysis and maybe negotiation. One thing is small talk and socialization - but your problems with marketing and sales are not that. The issue is not that you don't have good enough small talk. It is that you don't know what you are expected to do. That is literally requirements gathering.

Reading up on that should you allow to formalise process of communication a bit more. That in turn helps even to highly social people. It should help you even more.

Lastly, guys "that you simply give tasks to, and ultimately the job gets done" are awesome to work with, even if they don't chat much. Really. Have collegues like that and they are great to be in office or team with.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#88

Post by wizardofmysore »

I suggest you read "how to talk to anyone, anytime and anywhere" by Larry King. It is not a bs self-help book. It is written by an expert in a very professional way. There are actionable insights in it. I am a senior engineer, I used to find it hard to make conversation but now it's easy. The main take away for me is that the easiest way to start a conversation is to make it about the other person, people love to talk about themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#89

Post by denimalpaca »

ThePadawan wrote: post #67
AchieveLife wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, the book is over-hyped and not that helpful. It's incredibly easy to spot people who utilize concepts in that book and are not being genuine in their interaction. 'Masks' are a great way to prevent authentic connection. I've found better utility in a combination of books about positive psychology, emotions in relationships, and analytical psychology.

I've often tried to find better methods of communicating with people, but I'm still struggling with one major problem: What do you do when someone literally does not react to anything you say in any way whatsoever? I could tell them "Yeah, X sounds like a great idea!" or "Please don't do that, I think X would be very harmful to the project", and their reaction would be the same "OK thanks, guess I'll go do X now". Th…

Ask someone to repeat back what you said so you know they actually understood what you were saying.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#90

Post by navait »

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #26

The best advice (though likely to be unpopular) is learn the basics of evolutionary psychology and body language. There is a lot more to learn after that but if you don't know those, there is too much you won't be able to see.

Isn't this like learning assembly to program python?
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