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Ask HN: Founders, what is the worst experience you had with developers?

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Re: Ask HN: Founders, what is the worst experience you had with developers?

#81

Post by j45 »

redhale wrote: post #32
thewizardofaus wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly right , I feel like a lot of problems mentioned in this thread are a result of hiring the cheapest engineer/developer/etc.

Yes, exactly. The problem is that for many companies that decide to outsource, the motivating factor is cost savings. "Why pay $80-100/hr for an Indian engineer when I can pay $20?" And then six months down the road, "why are all our systems so shoddy?" "Why are our development cycles so long?" As a consultant, I've seen this pattern so many times it's insane. And depressing... and for better or worse, lucrative.

Paying more doesn't guarantee this. Lots of new developers want those top rates and deliver the same sub standard quality. On the other end, expensive consultants can be highly ineffective.

An HR manager once said each hire is a compromise in some way because no two candidates are alike.

One key in hiring remote is to take some extra time to get to know the candidates via video calls to create a connection and better determine what their strengths and weaknesses are, and get the conversation to a point where the compromise is acknowledged and you can talk about their ability to learn what they don't know and examples of that.

How effectively a developer can learn and apply new knowledge is they main thing I look for. Learning while you work is the new norm, but hiring is not always setup that way.

Re: Ask HN: Founders, what is the worst experience you had with developers?

#82

Post by tnolet »

jasonkester wrote: post #72

Developer attitude towards spending money on software... "Invented Here Syndrome" when it comes to the choice between writing 50 lines of code vs. pulling in 4mb of client side dependencies to use a giant 3rd party (yet Open Source and therefore Free!) library that incidentally offers a solution to the same problem, after about 50 lines of configuration. vs. "Not Invented Here Syndrome" for anything that involves pay…

This is hilarious and completely nails a former coworker and engineering manager of mine. Morbidly afraid of paying $10 for any service.

Re: Ask HN: Founders, what is the worst experience you had with developers?

#83

Post by tnolet »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #50
sridca wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some specific (behavioral) examples of "lacking professional mentality"?

+ A general disregard for any activity that isn't specifically development. Like 'meetings'. Of course meetings can be overdone, but they can have a lot of value even if the topic being discussed at any moment isn't hyper-relevant to the developer himself. There's a commenter below who said he has a dev who'll bring in competitive offers if he's asked to go to more than two meetings a week for example. This dev has h…

Your list resonates with me on all points. Sadly, it seems that due to scarcity in the market some engineers are acting like self entitled, spoiled babies. The arrogant/know-it-all streak on topics way outside their area is also pretty pervasive. It changes with age though. I was like this 10 years ago to some degree. You mellow out over the years.

Re: Ask HN: Founders, what is the worst experience you had with developers?

#84

Post by ezekg »

laurentl wrote: post #78
jasonkester wrote: post #72

Developer attitude towards spending money on software... "Invented Here Syndrome" when it comes to the choice between writing 50 lines of code vs. pulling in 4mb of client side dependencies to use a giant 3rd party (yet Open Source and therefore Free!) library that incidentally offers a solution to the same problem, after about 50 lines of configuration. vs. "Not Invented Here Syndrome" for anything that involves pay…

This. Developers often have a blind side to their own cost and will happily spend a week or more of their time (i.e. a few k$ at market rate) to shave $300 from an AWS bill.

They should start a business. Then they’ll realize how valuable their time really is and that $100/mo won’t seem so bad. (Note: I’m an eng who used to enjoy reinventing the wheel.)

Re: Ask HN: Founders, what is the worst experience you had with developers?

#85

Post by minhaz23 »

choonway wrote: post #66
threeseed wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what your point is here. Your company chose the lowest priced company and was surprised when the quality of the work wasn't great. Because this isn't just unique to just India. This happens everywhere. To counteract this story. I worked at Apple where they used offshore engineers from India and the quality of the work was excellent. You get what you pay for.

They chose the lowest priced company because they didn't know how to spec the tender properly and to do a proper risk analysis. The lowest costs, of course, will win out in this case.

How would one do it properly then?

Re: Ask HN: Founders, what is the worst experience you had with developers?

#86

Post by [deleted] »

no1youknowz wrote: post #18

I have interacted with off-shore development teams from a specific country 3 times now. I'll say the country later. Every time the development team could not grasp what was required. You literally had to exchange 20 emails with them for each specific point. Of course, this just increased the length of time for scope and in all cases furthered the time of the project. Each stage of the application was over engineered…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Founders, what is the worst experience you had with developers?

#87

Post by candiodari »

minhaz23 wrote: post #85
choonway wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They chose the lowest priced company because they didn't know how to spec the tender properly and to do a proper risk analysis. The lowest costs, of course, will win out in this case.

How would one do it properly then?

One can't. That would require management "speccing it out" (ie. knowing what they're asking for).

The only fix for that problem is replace management, which would have to be done ... by management.

Re: Ask HN: Founders, what is the worst experience you had with developers?

#88

Post by newusertoday »

no1youknowz wrote: post #18

I have interacted with off-shore development teams from a specific country 3 times now. I'll say the country later. Every time the development team could not grasp what was required. You literally had to exchange 20 emails with them for each specific point. Of course, this just increased the length of time for scope and in all cases furthered the time of the project. Each stage of the application was over engineered…

how to get these projects? how did the outsourcing company contacted you/management? where did the bidding happened?(upwork/freelancer/companies own bidding site)

I am amazed that low cost outsourcing companies are able to fetch millions of dollars worth of contracts while actual competent developers have hard time landing them.

Re: Ask HN: Founders, what is the worst experience you had with developers?

#89

Post by mattmanser »

candiodari wrote: post #87
minhaz23 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would one do it properly then?

One can't. That would require management "speccing it out" (ie. knowing what they're asking for). The only fix for that problem is replace management, which would have to be done ... by management.

You're just suggesting management should follow a waterfall PM structure.

We're supposed to get incomplete specs, it's the only way everyone can end up happy. It doesn't help pointing fingers at an ephemeral 'management' for not knowing exactly how an app should work up front.

Re: Ask HN: Founders, what is the worst experience you had with developers?

#90

Post by paulddraper »

rl3 wrote: post #61
choot wrote: post #3

1. Undocumented server setups with passwords saved in their own password manager and refusing to hand passwords and proccess after being fired. 2. Hacking the servers after being fired and deleting the data 3. Insulting the guy from the marketing/sales/customer service department for lack of technical knowledge. 4. Asking the woman from the customer service department to be a cheerleader to up his motivation while he…

>2. Hacking the servers after being fired and deleting the data May I ask what happened with this? For many companies step one would be to contact the feds, and then the former employee would awaken to the sound of their door being kicked in pursuant to a search warrant for all of their personal devices.

Why is this a federal crime?
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