I have both coded before and after the cs degree. Degree is not about making money but gets you to the level of understanding that nobody can sh*t talk you about how important learning 'x tech' is. Learning that much without degree is really tough as trying to pull your teeth without going to the dentist. Only danger is, you become so deep about the knowledge part but business doesn't care how good scientist you are, so there is that.
Ask HN: Is a computer science degree worth it or should I learn on my own?
81–90 of 99 posts
Re: Ask HN: Is a computer science degree worth it or should I learn on my own?
#82I'm a Russian citizen and have no degree, self-taught, never had a problem, until recently when I was offered a job in Berlin. As far as I understand, in order for a foreigner to be able to live and work in Germany (and that should apply to many, if not all, other European countries too) one must obtain a Blue Card, and that requires one to have a degree in the field they're going to work in.
even that can be bypassed if the company is really interested in you, they need to offer you yearly salary greater than xx000 EUR and give you contract for 1 or 2 years and you can get a blue card without university degree. i dont know the details, but im working in berlin and i know many friends with that issue
Wow! Sounds great if true... Could you, please, connect me with one of those friends of yours? I'm really willing to go, meet people, make some friends, if possible at my age, maybe, even, try to launch a dev studio. I was also considering buying a degree, but, of course, I'd much prefer a legal way.
Where are you from, if you don't mind? How is it in Berlin? I stopped following any news a while ago, but the last thing I heard was that a lot of refugees were coming to Germany and not all of them were behaving. To the extent that native Germans started leaving some cities. Is that true? Is it safe in general?
Re: Ask HN: Is a computer science degree worth it or should I learn on my own?
#83I'm a Russian citizen and have no degree, self-taught, never had a problem, until recently when I was offered a job in Berlin. As far as I understand, in order for a foreigner to be able to live and work in Germany (and that should apply to many, if not all, other European countries too) one must obtain a Blue Card, and that requires one to have a degree in the field they're going to work in.
even that can be bypassed if the company is really interested in you, they need to offer you yearly salary greater than xx000 EUR and give you contract for 1 or 2 years and you can get a blue card without university degree. i dont know the details, but im working in berlin and i know many friends with that issue
My email is iliaznk@gmail.com, just in case.
Re: Ask HN: Is a computer science degree worth it or should I learn on my own?
#84I would suggest getting a degree in engineering! Electrical, Computer, Software. The key to being effective in the long term is to be able to design and then implement system of systems. Astronomy is not about building telescopes and biology is not about designing microscopes. Whilst CS is a very important field, it could be likened to being like physics is to structural engineering. Physics study will teach you a lo…
But CS pays, and engineering doesn’t. If you plan on getting a job, that engineering degree is worthless when you’re at a whiteboard and the interviewer is asking some canonical CS question requiring implementation of a data structure that you don’t know the name of. Also, engineering is hard, like, lifetime of accumulated knowledge hard. It’s true for CS as well, but there are so many kids running the show that it’l…
>>If you plan on getting a job, that engineering degree is worthless when you’re at a whiteboard and the interviewer is asking some canonical CS question requiring implementation of a data structure that you don’t know the name of.
What software engineering program doesn't cover DS/A? Furthermore every answer to those cookie cutter whiteboard questions can be found in CTCI, leetcode, or any other DS/A textbook.
Lets not pretend that a CS degree is some magic pass to getting a job in the field.
Re: Ask HN: Is a computer science degree worth it or should I learn on my own?
#85In general, 4 years of school is worth 4 years of work experience. The problem being that, without 4 years of school, it's hard to convince anyone to hire you and get 4 years of decent work experience.
Additionally, it's harder to get jobs at larger and more bureaucratic companies without a degree. This is because of risk. If I'm a hiring manager, and I hire you, and you do a good job, everything is fine. If I hire you and you're a disaster, there will be a review as to whether there were any red flags during the hiring process that were missed. If "doesn't have a college degree and sufficient work experience" is found, it'll be used to make me look like I was sloppy for hiring you. If no red flags are found, it'll be chalked up to "there were no red flags. This was just bad luck." and everyone moves on. Knowing this, I probably won't hire you even if I think you're a good risk because it's not worth the risk for me.
Without a college education, you'll need to work for small companies who are willing to take a risk on you. You'll also have to accept really low pay to offset this risk until you've built a decent resume.
All of these things might be better than accumulating student debt. Depends on where you live, what the job market is like, and what connections you have.
Re: Ask HN: Is a computer science degree worth it or should I learn on my own?
#86Let’s ask the question that matters: how much cash do you have? Don’t use debt to finance an education. That’s a pure gamble that most people lose. Work hard and build things. If you can build things you love, that’s even better.
I’m thinking that since you’re asking “should I go to school” you’re like the fish asking “should I attempt to eat from this hook”. If someone is offering something for free, investigate what’s at stake and who is most likely to benefit at the end of the day.
Re: Ask HN: Is a computer science degree worth it or should I learn on my own?
#87Going to school make's it easier to become a chef rather than becoming a cook [1] (“reasoning from first principles” vs “reasoning by analogy”).
There's nothing wrong with being a cook but it depends on what you are aiming for for your career.
[1] https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/11/the-cook-and-the-chef-musks-s...
[1] https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/11/the-cook-and-the-chef-musks-s...
Re: Ask HN: Is a computer science degree worth it or should I learn on my own?
#88In general, 4 years of school is worth 4 years of work experience. The problem being that, without 4 years of school, it's hard to convince anyone to hire you and get 4 years of decent work experience. Additionally, it's harder to get jobs at larger and more bureaucratic companies without a degree. This is because of risk. If I'm a hiring manager, and I hire you, and you do a good job, everything is fine. If I hire y…
My 4 year degree sure doesn’t look like 4 years of experience to any HR staff/hiring managers I’ve ever interacted with.
Re: Ask HN: Is a computer science degree worth it or should I learn on my own?
#89From what you see on social media, in the news, etc. it might seem like "wow there are people out there who are self taught and made it big! I can do that!" But keep in mind, these stories are out there because they are rare. Most people who don't go to school, even those who shared the dreams of making it big, end up failing. The ones that succeed are unicorns. The inherent structure of school forces you to follow through with learning, projects, and eventually completing a degree.
There are multiple benefits to this. First you have a base to fall back on. No matter what you do from that point on, you have a degree that declares that you are at least somewhat competent in your field. You can't go any lower than this new platform you made it to.
Secondly, having gone through college for a degree in a field that I do not work in now, I can say there is still immense value in getting any degree, especially a science degree. The most important thing you learn is how to think logically, think for yourself, and how to problem solve logically. These are things that are often taken for granted, or overlooked.
Thirdly, you learn about a multitude of topics that you may not have bothered to investigate, which broadens your horizons, and makes your a more informed and intelligent person. Same goes for meeting new people. You meet people that you may never have had the chance of interacting with. Universities aggregate people from all over the world. You will make lifelong friends and connections that can be just as important in a career as technical skills. This also results in learned social skills and emotional intelligence which is immensely beneficial.
Re: Ask HN: Is a computer science degree worth it or should I learn on my own?
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
But CS pays, and engineering doesn’t. If you plan on getting a job, that engineering degree is worthless when you’re at a whiteboard and the interviewer is asking some canonical CS question requiring implementation of a data structure that you don’t know the name of. Also, engineering is hard, like, lifetime of accumulated knowledge hard. It’s true for CS as well, but there are so many kids running the show that it’l…
>>If you plan on getting a job, that engineering degree is worthless when you’re at a whiteboard and the interviewer is asking some canonical CS question requiring implementation of a data structure that you don’t know the name of. What software engineering program doesn't cover DS/A? Furthermore every answer to those cookie cutter whiteboard questions can be found in CTCI, leetcode, or any other DS/A textbook. Lets…
Off-hand CMU/Waterloo are the only places I know that offer a SWE degree, and it's mostly distance professional graduates.