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Ask HN: Is working on online casinos unethical?

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Re: Ask HN: Is working on online casinos unethical?

#81
Disclaimer: I am a recreational poker player, and have interacted with all sorts of rec players from serious semi-pros to weekend tourist players to total degenerate gamblers. The answer to this question will inevitably be personal and will vary based on your own personal ethics.

As someone who has quit a job partially over an ethical objection to the product subject matter (it was a surveillance system), I would have no problem at all taking a job at an online casino.

In terms of societal value, I don't see much of a difference between a gambling site and an online stock brokerage or financial trading firm. They're both zero-sum games, where the host takes a cut of the profit. Both can equally lead people to financial ruin, and can be equally addictive. So if you'd work for E-trade or even a hedge fund, why wouldn't you work for PokerStars?

In terms of legality, OP has already specified that it's legal in his/her region, so there should be no moral objection there.

In terms of providing end user value, at least they are providing entertainment value. There are plenty of worse tech jobs where you simply exploit end users and others reap most of the actual product value.

Other commenters have covered the Video Game / tobacco / Facebook angles so I won't go there.

OP, if you managed to find a job offer at one of these gaming companies (you didn't mention that), then congratulations. My understanding is that online gaming industry is quite like the video game industry, where it's tougher than average for an "outsider" to break into the industry.

Re: Ask HN: Is working on online casinos unethical?

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that money laundering is unethical.

Is there an argument in favor of it (money laundering) being ethical? The most I can think of is anonymity for the general public, but is this an actual use case?

I'd say financial anonymity should be considered a basic human right. If you have no privacy to your purchases, you have no privacy at all.

Re: Ask HN: Is working on online casinos unethical?

#83
Tl;dr No

The field of probability was invented by largely French philosophers wanting to understand the math behind casino games. Casino games are nothing more (or less) than pure math. The 'unethical' part of casino comes from operators extracting too large of an edge. Obviously, the operator needs to make something to get paid to run the game, but the 'house edge' can be around 10%.

When thinking about gambling being ethical or not, IMO the important question is the price of the risk, not the mechanic of money traded for risk. Money for risk is very common (think insurance for example). Nobody would argue insurance is unethical. But if a home owner policy cost the price of the house annually, people would consider that unethical.

Re: Ask HN: Is working on online casinos unethical?

#84
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that applies to just about every programming job too. Is programming unethical? I mean your are automating jobs away. It certainly harms lives.

By that measure taking a job is unethical because it takes away a job that another might perform... Yes, working for an industry that does harm to people is unethical. However, the censure that is deserved is proportional to the the "status" of the position they occupy in the industry, e.g. CEOs > Professionals > Blue Collar > Part Timers. Its not just the influence the different people have on the industries or comp…

Programmers have to have jobs just as much as blue collar people. I mean everything except (possibly) the CEO has to work for income.

Re: Ask HN: Is working on online casinos unethical?

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's suppose it's 1775 and the American rebels want to fund an arguably-just fight against the ruling British. Or let's suppose you run a VPN in China that allows the Chinese to arguably-justifiably access Western websites, and you need to launder your funds. Or perhaps you're a spy inside ISIS and need to hide the fact that you're getting funded by the US. Or perhaps you're in Iran and want to leave, but since Iran…

So, general anonymity, as I mentioned above. My (admittedly only implied) question around this usecase is: is it a real usecase, or purely theoretical?

Well, I did donate BTC to a cause in Africa (forget the country) that was at odds with the government which was taking a steep cut of any incoming money

Re: Ask HN: Is working on online casinos unethical?

#86

Is working for McDonalds unethical? Well yes, because people get obese and live shorter lives. Is working for Tobacco companies unethical? Well yes, because people die from cancer which was caused from smoking for example. Is working for the bank unethical? Well yes, because most banks make people buy bonds that have a high profit for the banks but lower for the customers. Is working for your local grocery store unet…

Hm. Sounds like temporizing. Clearly, working to produce a deliberately addictive product that is corrosive to health and happiness, is bad. If the product has any redeeming feature, and a reasonable legitimate market, isn't that different in more than a qualitative way? If I worked at McD's National, and were juggling fat/salt/sugar to produce the most addictive fries, then I'd call that unethical. But to sell beef…

> But to sell beef burgers to folks in a hurry for lunch, no.

Even if the person you're selling to is obese and will likely die an early death if the person in question continues his or hers behavior?

Re: Ask HN: Is working on online casinos unethical?

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm. Sounds like temporizing. Clearly, working to produce a deliberately addictive product that is corrosive to health and happiness, is bad. If the product has any redeeming feature, and a reasonable legitimate market, isn't that different in more than a qualitative way? If I worked at McD's National, and were juggling fat/salt/sugar to produce the most addictive fries, then I'd call that unethical. But to sell beef…

> But to sell beef burgers to folks in a hurry for lunch, no. Even if the person you're selling to is obese and will likely die an early death if the person in question continues his or hers behavior?

I would be a terrible counter person. I wouldn't sell to the addicted, just like a bartender has to cut off drunks. And I'd probably get fired. So yeah.
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