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Ask HN: Are you more likely to apply for a job that discloses salary upfront?

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Re: Ask HN: Are you more likely to apply for a job that discloses salary upfront?

#81

Post by nostrademons »

finspin wrote: post #19
jawns wrote: post #6

I doubt you'll get anyone who says that salary range disclosed in a job advertisement is not a good thing, from the perspective of the job seeker. The question you may want to ask instead is: "Does the benefit to the job seeker of having a salary range specified outweigh the loss of potential advertisers who do not want to disclose a salary range?" If you're just doing this as a side project, with no expectation of m…

I'm thinking that launching just another job board won't get me anywhere. I'll have to either a) spend heavily on advertising (which I can't afford) or b) differentiate myself from all other job boards out there. I live in Finland (5 million habitants) and based on my research only about 5% of job ads include salary. It's not part of the culture to discuss salaries publicly so it's very well possible that companies w…

The grandparent post is making an important point though: consider carefully which side of the market makes the rules and embrace their rules as constraints.

I spent ~8 months working on two different startup ideas in the hiring space, one with a cofounder who'd been researching it for close to a year before I came along. We also started with grand ideas of making hiring easier for the jobseeker. The problem is that jobseekers do not have money - hence why they need a job - and so all the money in the hiring space comes from the employer. Like any other competitive market, hiring is subject to the Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."

That's why getting a job sucks so much. It's a process that's entirely designed to benefit the company offering the job, not the person seeking the job. And lest you think you can just force companies to make their hiring processes more employee-friendly (we did), consider what happens if they say no. You'll have no listings, and without any listings, you have nothing to offer the jobseeker.

Re: Ask HN: Are you more likely to apply for a job that discloses salary upfront?

#82

Post by bbcbasic »

finspin wrote: post #74
pjungwir wrote: post #71

Certainly. Especially right now, you need to attract candidates who are "passively looking": people who have a job, but would move given a good offer. I do freelance development and consulting, and I'm basically happy with that. I wouldn't turn down a great opportunity, but I'm not going to start the application process unless I know you can beat what I'm already earning.

This is a great angle I haven't thought of. I'm guessing passively looking candidates might be quite a big chunk of the market. Given a financially interesting offer they might apply for a job which they would otherwise just skim through.

Potentially they are better hires. They found a great job and they are happy. If they take your job it's definitely for the right reasons.

Re: Ask HN: Are you more likely to apply for a job that discloses salary upfront?

#83

Post by nostrademons »

mcraiha wrote: post #52
finspin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thinking that launching just another job board won't get me anywhere. I'll have to either a) spend heavily on advertising (which I can't afford) or b) differentiate myself from all other job boards out there. I live in Finland (5 million habitants) and based on my research only about 5% of job ads include salary. It's not part of the culture to discuss salaries publicly so it's very well possible that companies w…

Offtopic for original question, but yeah, us Finns should be more open about salaries since our tax records are already public information. But some Finnish companies are worried about publishing salaries because they think foreigners won't even apply for certain jobs if they see that e.g. Swedish companies are giving a better salaries.

...wait, if tax records are already public information - could you create a job board that doesn't require the employer's cooperation at all? Just scrapes tax return information, correlates the "employer" field (there is one, right?) with the "income" field, and displays the average salary for every job title at every company? That'd be hugely valuable information; it's not possible to build in the U.S. since our tax records are private, but it'd give a great picture of the economy and which sectors are in demand.

Re: Ask HN: Are you more likely to apply for a job that discloses salary upfront?

#84

Post by bbcbasic »

jaclaz wrote: post #77

I see the issue as information symmetry, the more the employer asks, the more he should quote the salary and detail other "advantages" (if any). To add some humour, from: https://tudorbarbu.ninja/message-to-recruiters/ "This is how most job ads sound nowadays: We’re looking for a person with more than 100 years of experience in software development, coding everything from BIOSes to cloud applications, knowledge of al…

The gitlab confidence gap disclaimer is a refreshing break from this trend.

Re: Ask HN: Are you more likely to apply for a job that discloses salary upfront?

#86

Post by bbcbasic »

rhizome wrote: post #63
deedubaya wrote: post #30

Lacking a salary range in a job posting tells me that "competitive salary" really means "below market rate" in most cases. I've found the best postings list their minimum ($70k+ or whatever). Maximum is irrelevant, as you can assume it's around 20% of that minimum. It shows what salaries and skill expertise they're after.

I've seen ads that list a salary range of "$100-200K." Not sure what skill level they're aiming for there.

They should split into roles with smaller bands. They probably just want to hedge their bets and try to land a 100k rockstar. But with the option to hire a 200k monkey if they get desperate!

Re: Ask HN: Are you more likely to apply for a job that discloses salary upfront?

#87

Post by mbreedlove »

nickff wrote: post #75
JamesBarney wrote: post #66

Too many employers think on one hand that they need hours of interviews to verify that I'm a top candidate, and on the other think that 70k is a competitive offer for me to waste my time applying to jobs without salaries.

If you want to quickly verify that a potential employer is willing to pay a 'competitive' salary, why don't you take the initiative and tell them not to consider you if the position pays less than $x?

Because that usually turns into you getting an offer of $x when in reality, they may have been willing to pay much higher.

Re: Ask HN: Are you more likely to apply for a job that discloses salary upfront?

#88

Post by dmoy »

pc86 wrote: post #79
shados wrote: post #26

A range helps to know if it's even worth applying. If I see a range, from X to Y, and my prefered salary is Y + 20k, It's probably worth talking to you because there's a chance I can make the needle move. If I'd have to make the needle move by 100k, then I'm not going to bother. If the range is not shown at all, I'll still apply, but I'll usually start with "While I negotiate salaries later in the process, my range i…

What is your X-Y that 20k seems to be a trivial percentage of your salary?

You can negotiate a non trivial percentage of a stated salary.

Re: Ask HN: Are you more likely to apply for a job that discloses salary upfront?

#89

Post by ap22213 »

ap22213 wrote: post #72
mailshanx wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome! Where / what do you work on?

"Big data analytics" (lol). Hey, in this business it pays to ride the hype curve for as long as you can... But, basically, I just crunch PiBs of data, build platforms that inexpensively scale to 100s of billions of writes a day, and generate astrological reports that get sold for much, much more than I make. My first mentor once told me two lasting pieces of advice to making money: 1) Do not try to know everything. I…

His 3rd piece of advice (somewhat unrelated): Find a boss that you love to work for and make them successful. And, if you don't like your boss, run from them as politely but as fast as you can.

Re: Ask HN: Are you more likely to apply for a job that discloses salary upfront?

#90

Post by derekp7 »

This is the one nice thing about going through a recruiter (that you trust). You can give them the range that you are looking for (a lower number plus other benefits, or a higher number if it is a higher stress place), and they can filter the positions ahead of time.
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