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Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

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Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#81

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

shock wrote: post #80

I've read the book The Power of Habit and found it enlightening, but the bits I'm having most trouble with are choosing rewards and getting started. The part about choosing rewards is, by far, the most difficult for me. Everybody keeps saying "make sure to reward yourself after doing the thing you want to make habitual" but nobody provides actual examples of rewards that work and are not harmful (no, I don't want to…

From personal experience, starting with a cookie (I used a piece of chocolate, because small individually wrapped units) is really the most effective way.

However, I always congratulated myself (outloud, by name) when giving myself the treat, and pretty soon, the congratulating myself was conditioned as a reward for the activity, letting me drop (most of) the usage of actual treats.

Just treat yourself like a particularly stubborn and clever dog/cat/animal you're trying to train -- if marketing has taught us anything, it's that cheap psychology tricks work.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#82

Post by bskinny129 »

TheTaytay wrote: post #28

BJ Fog is a Stanford researcher who is studying exactly that. Check out his "tiny habits" program, which is a one week course in which you will learn 3 new tiny habits. It is free and enlightening: tinyhabits.com

I highly recommend this as well. It involves all the principles discussed in this thread, but makes you actually do them rather than just reading about it

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#83

Post by MaxfordAndSons »

kstenerud wrote: post #77

Being uncomfortable leads to guilt and a sense of failure for good reason: You DID fail. Be honest. How you handle failure tells a LOT about your character. Either you're a pussy who sits in a corner feeling sorry for yourself, or you take your lumps, then get up and go again. Feeling warm and fuzzy all the time doesn't give you grit.

I agree with most of your list, but also strongly disagree with this point. Or rather, while I agree that you should try your hardest to keep your routine, I detest the part about making yourself feel bad. There are lots of reasons you might have to break a routine, it's not like every habit one might try to build is going to be the single most important thing in your life. And some people just don't respond well to guilt and self-flagellation. I know I don't. If that approach works for you, fine, but it really doesn't have to be a binary choice between considering yourself to be a self-pitying "pussy" and a self-actualizing achiever of your goals.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#84

Post by nickjj »

goblin89 wrote: post #76
nickjj wrote: post #67

I think you need a complete change in mindset, because you're just setting yourself up for failure. You shouldn't need to develop a habit like reading or exercise. If you don't truly want to do these things then you'll stick to your systematic habit for a few days and it'll fizzle out, then it's back to the drawing board. I've been walking/jogging a few miles a day for the last 5 years or so. Now it's part of my life…

> If you find that too difficult, then your goal is not really something you care about, so think harder. From personal experience, agreed that you shouldn’t have to make yourself, and instead realizing that you want it. Disagreed with ‘think harder’, though. When mind is foggy, thinking harder doesn’t seem to help; and when mind is clear, things tend to be obvious without thinking. When you woke up to a spinning roo…

Right, when the room was spinning, I didn't think "I better read a Tim Ferris book!" or "what type of application should I use to schedule my time to monitor habits".

It was more like sitting down and having a conversation with myself that went something like this:

"You're not in that bad shape, but something is messed up. Cigarettes are terrible and while you're not overweight, you're inactive and that needs to change or you're going to die".

Then I basically evaluated my life up until that point and made sweeping changes based on a bunch of goals that I wrote out.

The really funny thing is, death wasn't enough to keep me motivated with walking. Not because I hated it that much, but it was really easy to get trolled by my own brain with thoughts such as "you just walked 4 miles in 4 days after sitting at a computer desk for years... you're fine man".

Now I have long term goals and walking meshes well with my life style. I've grown to like it because of what it allows me to do, not because of the mechanical motion of walking.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#85

Post by vannevar »

d23 wrote: post #49
kstenerud wrote: post #26

1. Build a routine. Set a specific, repeating time when you will do the thing in your calendar. Keep that slot clear, ALWAYS. Never let something interrupt this task. 2. Learn to say no. If someone wants you to do something else during this time slot, say no, and tell them why. 3. Never break the routine. Breaking it once makes it MUCH easier to break the next scheduled time. If you do break it, feel bad about it and…

As someone who got into a regular exercise habit a year ago that has progressively gotten more intense, I disagree with a few of your points. Actually, I guess it's mostly the first 3: > 1. Build a routine. Set a specific, repeating time when you will do the thing in your calendar. Keep that slot clear, ALWAYS. Never let something interrupt this task. > 2. Learn to say no. If someone wants you to do something else du…

Yes, habit is about cues. Time is one cue, but it can be a weak one if your ordinary routine varies. If you set your exercise time as 6pm, but your activity at 5:30 is not routine, then the time cue may not be enough to trigger the habit. You'll lose track of time and suddenly realize it's 6:15, at which point (like this comments says), you'll feel like you failed and you'll rationalize not doing it at all.

The key is to entrain a new habit with an old one---exercise when you get up, or on your way home from work, or at some other point in the day where you're reliably doing the same thing every day.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#86

Post by kstenerud »

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #83
kstenerud wrote: post #77

Being uncomfortable leads to guilt and a sense of failure for good reason: You DID fail. Be honest. How you handle failure tells a LOT about your character. Either you're a pussy who sits in a corner feeling sorry for yourself, or you take your lumps, then get up and go again. Feeling warm and fuzzy all the time doesn't give you grit.

I agree with most of your list, but also strongly disagree with this point. Or rather, while I agree that you should try your hardest to keep your routine, I detest the part about making yourself feel bad. There are lots of reasons you might have to break a routine, it's not like every habit one might try to build is going to be the single most important thing in your life. And some people just don't respond well to…

It only makes a difference when you finally face real adversity. I'm a serial entrepreneur. I've had 8 companies, 6 of which have failed. Twice I've been literally reduced to the clothes on my back (actually the second time was even worse: 30 grand in debt, to the government).

When shit goes REALLY bad, your ability to deal with the nastiness of reality is put to the test. I fought for a month and a half with a broken rib, because I refused to give in. I've climbed out of some very nasty holes and endured the most humiliating circumstances holding my head high, because I will not concede defeat. If I have to die, I'll kill my enemies first. If I fail, that's MY fault, not other people, not circumstance. I have sole responsibility over myself, EVEN if I'm not the one who got me into the mess originally. It's MY responsibility to get out, and no one else's, because let's face it: no one else gives anywhere near as much of a shit about you as you do.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#87

Post by udfalkso »

shock wrote: post #80

I've read the book The Power of Habit and found it enlightening, but the bits I'm having most trouble with are choosing rewards and getting started. The part about choosing rewards is, by far, the most difficult for me. Everybody keeps saying "make sure to reward yourself after doing the thing you want to make habitual" but nobody provides actual examples of rewards that work and are not harmful (no, I don't want to…

My app helps people build better eating habits through these sort of positive reinforcement techniques (although virtual rewards in this case). So far the results are quite promising.

https://www.thefoodstand.com

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#88

Post by dclowd9901 »

kstenerud wrote: post #26

1. Build a routine. Set a specific, repeating time when you will do the thing in your calendar. Keep that slot clear, ALWAYS. Never let something interrupt this task. 2. Learn to say no. If someone wants you to do something else during this time slot, say no, and tell them why. 3. Never break the routine. Breaking it once makes it MUCH easier to break the next scheduled time. If you do break it, feel bad about it and…

On 4: there are applications that you can get that will impose a painful measure on you should you stray from routine. Things like donating to the political party opposite yours should you fail.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#89

Post by mtw »

The biggest challenges I found are distractions. It's easy to get going with running, reading or exercise but as long as TV is there, Netflix or the Internet, we are easily tempted to follow the easy path.

Once you get distracted by something, it's very easy to continue to be distracted. I'm thinking of binge-watching Netflix, or checking out the reddit front-page etc. After, we forget what is the work and what are the todos. Even if we have to go back to a productive state, then we are not in the zone, and it is still very easy to go back in distraction mode.

Based on all this, what worked for me was being productive right from the beginning. Waking up, I do something productive, often creative writing. When I begin to work, I do not check news or email. I start with a to-dos that are quick to do. You do a streak and then continue on the bigger todos. News, emails, blogs, social media are much later in the day, if at all.

In this framework, if I want to develop a new habit, I would wake up early and put 30mn of time into it. I won't open up my phone or have any social interaction before finishing it.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any systematic and scientific ways to develop a habit?

#90

Post by dpandey »

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #83
kstenerud wrote: post #77

Being uncomfortable leads to guilt and a sense of failure for good reason: You DID fail. Be honest. How you handle failure tells a LOT about your character. Either you're a pussy who sits in a corner feeling sorry for yourself, or you take your lumps, then get up and go again. Feeling warm and fuzzy all the time doesn't give you grit.

I agree with most of your list, but also strongly disagree with this point. Or rather, while I agree that you should try your hardest to keep your routine, I detest the part about making yourself feel bad. There are lots of reasons you might have to break a routine, it's not like every habit one might try to build is going to be the single most important thing in your life. And some people just don't respond well to…

Exactly. Comfort with an occasional fail is really important and helps you stay on track. Being really extreme usually leads to the extreme outcome - falling off - just on one fail.
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