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Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

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81–90 of 110 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#81
post #39

> Is there xenophobia? Are Americans looked down upon or treated differently? xenophobia, no. treated differently, definitely. often they won't know where you fit into the social hierarchy, because, you don't. You don't have any family or social history so they may treat you like gods or may somewhat exclude you. Language is a huge barrier. If you're in Shenzhen, there will be near-zero english. You'll have to learn…

> You'll have to learn mandarin, which will take many years. Why would it? Is it really that complex a language? How different is learning Mandarin than learning German, French, Russian, English or Greek? I understand that the writing system is probably much more complex and requires much more memorization than the other languages mentioned, but other than that, what about grammar, vocabulary, and pronunciation?

For me the trickiest thing to wrap my head around is that Mandarin is heavily tonal, and I've never had to deal with that in my life, making it a difficult thing to introduce my brain to.

Some words mean 5 different things depending on how you vary the tone throughout the word; I'm no stranger to simple variation as I had to deal with emphasis and inflection while learning Spanish, but Mandarin is a whole other kettle of fish.

I'm more than happy to accept that maybe I didn't put enough effort in or am generally poor at languages (only speak two), however I struggled to learn a handful of words per month.

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#82
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Send patio11 an e-mail. He has previous experience with working 60 hour weeks in Japan.

So being a gaijin doesn't help here? (there)

Japan is pretty Xenophobic. The whole article is interesting but if you search for "On Being A Foreigner In Japan" it gets right to the point.

http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#83
post #59

It is awesome! I've been in Shenzhen with my startup for a year now and its great.., I want to stay here forever. Apart from the slow internet through the VPN, weird but interesting food and the language barrier, its a very exciting and prosperous country to be in. Foreigners here are treated equally and sometimes treated way better than they deserve!! Regarding jobs, there are plenty, but it depends which province/c…

US citizens have the same yearly working visa renewal as everyone else. The 10 year visa applies only to tourism and each stay is limited to 90 days or so.

Yes you are right! I've seen many small companies here use the "M" or even the non-business "F" (catch-all) visa and that visa was issued with the full knowledge of the locals here. No idea about other cities, SZ is in the special economic zone so some rules are more "relaxed".

Regarding the entries, yes you need to go in and out every 30-90 days unfortunately.

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#84
post #72
post #59

It is awesome! I've been in Shenzhen with my startup for a year now and its great.., I want to stay here forever. Apart from the slow internet through the VPN, weird but interesting food and the language barrier, its a very exciting and prosperous country to be in. Foreigners here are treated equally and sometimes treated way better than they deserve!! Regarding jobs, there are plenty, but it depends which province/c…

What does your startup do, if you don't mind my asking?

We do an agriculture sensor.. We are called Pycno :)

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#85
post #75
post #59

It is awesome! I've been in Shenzhen with my startup for a year now and its great.., I want to stay here forever. Apart from the slow internet through the VPN, weird but interesting food and the language barrier, its a very exciting and prosperous country to be in. Foreigners here are treated equally and sometimes treated way better than they deserve!! Regarding jobs, there are plenty, but it depends which province/c…

Very few places in the world pay as much as Silicon Valley, so I'm curious if your comparison with 'the US' is tech jobs in SF/NYC or tech jobs in normal places (i.e. 'not as highly paid' could mean 'only' $100k/yr for a devops position).

Sorry for the vagueness. SF/NYC is indeed the extreme, from what i've seen, a mid-experienced programmer (Backend , embedded C), 3-4 years in industry, might get something like 150K yuan on average, and up to 250K yuan if you are a jedi, per year.. Which is around 20-40k USD. So quite low in general.

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#86

have been in shanghai for 9 years working for a silicon valley company. there's obviously a cost associated with obtaining a working visa, but i don't know the details or the extent of how much a burden that is going to be on the company. if you don't speak chinese (or write), i think you'll be limited to working for multinational companies (mnc's) like microsoft, emc, vmware, cisco, etc. google has an office here, b…

Mind sharing what company? Trying to apply to international companies that wouldn't mind sending people abroad.

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was some noise about the GFW doing clever stuff(tm) to identify VPN traffic and punish the local IP for that. Was that real or hype?

Try shadowsocks it designed and made by China :-) https://shadowsocks.org/en/index.html

I agree, shadowsocks is much more powerful open source solution in crossing the GFW. But I’m hardly find a quick reliable service provider. And the primary developer (a young woman) quitted under the stress of administration. So the future of this project is unclear.

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#89
"How difficult is it to find a job? How about a visa?"

If you have a degree and 2 years' post-degree work experience, your employer will have no problem sponsoring your work permit and visa. The process requires multiple steps and is often outsourced, so not every company will be willing to do it. But if they have at least one foreign employee then that's a good sign.

I'm assuming that you don't speak Chinese. For some jobs, this is a show-stopper or major disadvantage. There are other developers just as good as you, but who can read/write/speak/listen to communicate. BUT for software development jobs with many foreign companies (large ones like Amazon, or small game studios) you'll be on a level playing field with someone who speaks Chinese.

"Is there xenophobia? Are Americans looked down upon or treated differently?"

Americans are not looked down upon at all. Most Chinese I've met have respect for America's achievements and are aware of generally higher living standards there. Many white male Americans find more dating options in China than they did back home. (I'm neither white nor American, so have only heard this second hand.)

Re: Ask HN: Is it difficult for non-Chinese to work in China?

#90
post #33
post #11

Hello. Im a Swedish Sofware engineer and I have been working in Beijing for the last ~4 years. As others have pointed out, China is huge, and I have no experience from working in Hongkong or Shanghai where the vibe is more international, or so they say. So what to expect? Smooth sailing, as long as you can deliver. There is a lot of companies that value English speakers in general, so dont be surprised if you get pam…

I had beers with the P1 team in Beijing about 3-4 years ago, so I probably met you too :) Seemed like a cool little company at the time. I'm surprised that you were able to get a Z visa (?) as I thought that required a degree? OP: I can recommend living in China for the experience alone. You'll be treated differently, but xenophobia is not the word I'd use. I'm white and my experience was pretty great, though I'm not…

"Learning basic Chinese is helpful, but in the biggest cities you can typically get by with English and gestures."

Sure, you can 'get by' in the sense that you'll be able to buy food and get around. But if you plan to spend more than 6 months in China, studying Chinese will pay off in a better overall experience.

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