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Ask HN: Why don't publishers serve ads from their domains to thwart ad-blockers?

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Re: Ask HN: Why don't publishers serve ads from their domains to thwart ad-blockers?

#81

Post by as1ndu »

zhobbs wrote: post #68
as1ndu wrote: post #62

The reason is one. And it is because ad blockers actually do not affect both the publishers and ad companies that much. About only less 5% of the internet users world wide have ever employed ad blockers ( http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/in-bringing-ad-... ). I am sure they will move ad serving to the backend when they get better reasons to shun of client side technology. Its just not worth it....yet.

This is changing fast depending on the audience for your content. Some publishers are now seeing 40%+ of their traffic ad blocked. Some countries are seeing 30%+ of total population using ad block. Ad block usage is up 41% year over year...this is going to be a very serious issue very soon for many publishers. Some of my numbers are from: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/10/study-of-ad-blockin...

thanx for the enlightement!!!

Re: Ask HN: Why don't publishers serve ads from their domains to thwart ad-blockers?

#82

Post by sheepmullet »

DanBlake wrote: post #28
jordigh wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work hard to block all ads, including those. It's super helpful if you can provide an HTML class to your divs so I can more easily block them, but I will keep on working on blocking all ads by all means possible. I'm thinking of building an ad extension that doesn't show the ads but reports to js that the ad is still there, so that websites think that ad is there. It might also help for some cases to download the a…

Its a race that (if the ad industry gets smarter) will be very hard for the ad blockers to match. Because publishers have control of the website, they can do things like randomize the div name, parameter names, javascript names, javascript functions, sizes of the ad, randomize images for the ad, use dynamic JS positioning, etc.. Basically if a publisher was serving their own ads and didn't want them blocked, you woul…

> Its a race that (if the ad industry gets smarter) will be very hard for the ad blockers to match.

Not really. I currently have my browser setup to strip out the main text content and display it "reader" style with images pre-loaded but requiring a click to display.

Even if you get tricky with loading of content via JavaScript trickery adblockers can always run the JavaScript etc but only "fake" render it.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't publishers serve ads from their domains to thwart ad-blockers?

#83

Post by DanBlake »

sheepmullet wrote: post #82
DanBlake wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a race that (if the ad industry gets smarter) will be very hard for the ad blockers to match. Because publishers have control of the website, they can do things like randomize the div name, parameter names, javascript names, javascript functions, sizes of the ad, randomize images for the ad, use dynamic JS positioning, etc.. Basically if a publisher was serving their own ads and didn't want them blocked, you woul…

> Its a race that (if the ad industry gets smarter) will be very hard for the ad blockers to match. Not really. I currently have my browser setup to strip out the main text content and display it "reader" style with images pre-loaded but requiring a click to display. Even if you get tricky with loading of content via JavaScript trickery adblockers can always run the JavaScript etc but only "fake" render it.

Thats like saying ad blockers cant win because you browse the web from view-source:

Even in that case, If the pub wanted to, he could check to see if you requested additional ad-serving JS/images/resources from a request before showing you the html/js content. If the sites 'content' is loaded with JS rather than being visible in the static source, there is not going to be much you can do.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't publishers serve ads from their domains to thwart ad-blockers?

#84

Post by trienthusiast »

freehunter wrote: post #75
johnward wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaching content is not much different than the early days of MP3s. So I'm hopeful we'll find a new business model that works without me having to pay for every site on the web I want to browse. I can't remember the last time I pirated an album. The ease of streaming services has made it so convenient that I don't want to manage local files. Still I don't buy the argument that just because you don't want to pay for t…

We're not talking about dodging a toll booth or throwing a hat over the security alarms while walking out of a store. I ate a sample at Costco without buying the product. I got a spray of cologne at Macy's without asking what brand it was. I went to 7/11 on "free slurpee day" and got my free slurpee and nothing else. I'm an extreme couponer who walked out the door owing nothing. I'm not taking anything from you becau…

> I'm not taking anything from you because you gave it to me for free

logical fallacy. You took it for free, but it had a price. If the ad has a $3 RPM it means you seeing the ad pays $0.003 to the content producer.

The price was just to let that ad load. not even to watch it or to read it.

It was free for you because you took it, by using a browser extension that lets you watch the site in a different way than the one that was intended.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't publishers serve ads from their domains to thwart ad-blockers?

#85

Post by sheepmullet »

DanBlake wrote: post #83
sheepmullet wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its a race that (if the ad industry gets smarter) will be very hard for the ad blockers to match. Not really. I currently have my browser setup to strip out the main text content and display it "reader" style with images pre-loaded but requiring a click to display. Even if you get tricky with loading of content via JavaScript trickery adblockers can always run the JavaScript etc but only "fake" render it.

Thats like saying ad blockers cant win because you browse the web from view-source: Even in that case, If the pub wanted to, he could check to see if you requested additional ad-serving JS/images/resources from a request before showing you the html/js content. If the sites 'content' is loaded with JS rather than being visible in the static source, there is not going to be much you can do.

> Thats like saying ad blockers cant win because you browse the web from view-source:

Personally I find most of the value is in the content and not the layout. So it's not really anything like view source which mixes them and makes it very difficult to read the content.

Of course it's a bit different with full blown web apps but I can't think of any web app I use that is supported by advertising.

> If the sites 'content' is loaded with JS rather than being visible in the static source, there is not going to be much you can do.

The problem is now two-fold: 1) You are going to hurt your search rankings, and 2) it is possible for ad blockers to get around. Like I said just get the browser to load and run the js, ads, etc, and just not render anything that's not clearly content.

Ad driven sites could up the game by requiring user interaction before they load the content, but if the interaction is simple and repeatable then its easy to tag and handle.

They could start requiring captchas etc that are integrated with the ads before requesting the content via js but at this point I'd really start to question whether your regular users will stick around.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't publishers serve ads from their domains to thwart ad-blockers?

#86

Post by DanBlake »

sheepmullet wrote: post #85
DanBlake wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats like saying ad blockers cant win because you browse the web from view-source: Even in that case, If the pub wanted to, he could check to see if you requested additional ad-serving JS/images/resources from a request before showing you the html/js content. If the sites 'content' is loaded with JS rather than being visible in the static source, there is not going to be much you can do.

> Thats like saying ad blockers cant win because you browse the web from view-source: Personally I find most of the value is in the content and not the layout. So it's not really anything like view source which mixes them and makes it very difficult to read the content. Of course it's a bit different with full blown web apps but I can't think of any web app I use that is supported by advertising. > If the sites 'cont…

So to be clear:

1: Search rankings not effected, because you do a "if useragent is googlebot and iprange = x, show normal site"

2: You are going to run the advertisements on the publishers site, even if they have nasty malware attached to them and use your system resources? Not displaying those ads wont keep your computer safe. Does not seem like a good idea.

3: There is so much logic capable in JS which can determine if its being hidden or not - What color is position x,y ? Its white? thats not correct... dont load the site. There could be a infinite amount of these non-interaction gotchas you will not be able to automate- You will have to go back and try to write a rule each time, and that rule will be tricky if everything is randomized.

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