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Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

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Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#781
Some of the most productive I have ever been is when I have had no team, no PM, and just an high-level objective that needed to be achieved sometime in the next few weeks. I worked 3-4 hours a day, went to gym, enjoyed time with friends and family, and everyone was shocked at how much work was completed. Once we started building formal structures around the project, a lot of the progress slowed down.

Organizing people is hard. Being burnt out and frustrated takes a lot of time and energy. Someone can work hard 40 hours a week and get nothing accomplished (besides trying to get decisions made). I'm honestly starting to think that the people who aren't very invested get a lot done because they don't get distracted by politics. If all of your work energy is spent on getting work done, you'll do surprisingly well

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#782
post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I will backburner a ticket for days, then when what I need to do comes together I will sit down and bang it out in an hour. It's to the point that I will deliberately review a ticket and code segment every day, even if I'm not actively working it, just to have the pieces come together in my mind and crank out the ticket. This method is not very scrum friendly, because in truth I'm actually brain-working all of…

> This method is not very scrum friendly, because in truth I'm actually brain-working all of my tickets at the same time, but I haven't shifted any electrons, just neurons. This really highlights why I hate agile so much. Intellectual work doesn't lead itself to reporting status on completed tickets every single day.

> ...Intellectual work doesn't lead itself to reporting status on completed tickets every single day.

Status is WIP until completion. As for the intellectual work, that's just outright Analysis stage.

Most of dev's work is actually analysis. Sure, there's implementation, testing and such, but Analysis is almost non-stop.

Anonter way to put this is Evaluation of Alternatives, Optimization of Approaches.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#783

I think there's also something to be said for passive processing. Sometimes I'll know I need to write some code or some function and I'll just think about it in the back of my head while doing other things, sometimes for a whole day or two. Then I'll sit down and write it in like 20-30 minutes. Did I work 20-30 minutes, or have I been working for a day or two? I would say a day or two, and the 20-30 minutes was the t…

Same. Most of my time is spent in thinking. My manager has told me though that it sometimes is not possible to quantify this time unless I create a doc where I lay down my thought process.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#784

I've been there. Maybe not 5 hours a week but certainly 10. I was in a small company that got acquired, and the organizational bloat really killed my productivity. Having to deal with paperwork for payroll and pointless meetings was a distraction from the actual work. I think this contributed to a creeping burnout, which led to me actually working 10 to 25 (tops) hours per week for maybe a year or two. Eventually I w…

Could I ask you how old are you ?

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the best ideas I've had in my career were in the shower before work. The problem is making that a regular occurrence.

> The problem is making that a regular occurrence. Ideally you shower every two days or so.

Reminds me of a phrase (joke?) I heard in Spanish.

> "I shower once a month, whether I even need it or not"

joke being that one clearly needs it after a month.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#786

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Have I just been incredibly lucky and every boss I have had is too incompetent to notice? Do I have imposter syndrome and I am actually a 10x developer whose laziness makes them a 1x developer? Lazy developers don't really bother me, if you do a couple hours of high-quality wor…

Ok I'm going to be lazy from now on to avoid being fired...

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#788

I think there's also something to be said for passive processing. Sometimes I'll know I need to write some code or some function and I'll just think about it in the back of my head while doing other things, sometimes for a whole day or two. Then I'll sit down and write it in like 20-30 minutes. Did I work 20-30 minutes, or have I been working for a day or two? I would say a day or two, and the 20-30 minutes was the t…

Adding my voice to this one. I think a lot of work 'normal people' i.e. the PMs the non-technical management, the sales people etc. really don't get how we techies work. Because they have to do 'active' work all day long to keep on top, they think everyone is like that, where in reality we are really efficient in short bursts. I can ponder a deliverable for days and then just churn it out over a few hours, only takin…

The other disconnect is that they can do their work in 30-60 minute bursts (meetings).

We cannot. Some things require multiple hours of uninterrupted concentration and if my calendar looks like someone fired a shotgun filled with 30 minute meetings at it, I can't achieve that.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#789
I am generally a pretty hard worker - I've worked in startups and major corporations, in high stress fields under constant time constraints. I could have usually gotten away with doing less I think, but I like to try and learn what I can and I'm miserable if I spend too much time doing nothing at work, so if I have time I go pick up old bugs off the neverending backlog. I've had a non engineering job that basically required me to find something to do for 5 hours of my 8 hour day because I had nothing else to do and it was hell.

That being said, it depends on my burnout. My burnout rate seems to be 3-4 years at a company. I worked hard at one of my previous jobs and climbed actually pretty high up the engineering ladder from a normal non junior engineering position, but got too burnt out with all of the additional responsibility. At that point, I noticed I stopped being as busy, taking more time away from doing basically nonwork things outside of meetings, and becoming a bit apathetic, too much that I was uncomfortable with it and quit because I needed to move on. During that time sometimes I was much less busy than I appeared but it made me feel bad over time.

I've been doing independent ventures lately and got a bit of that fire back but lately feel like I'm falling into the same trap and not being as productive as I'd like, wasting too much time on social media or other timesinks. I really need to kick myself out of this slump, I think I can but really I guess my productivity is linked directly to deadlines which I've been lax on setting for myself lately.

Anyways, long story short I usually don't pretend to be busy unless I'm burnt out, then I quit and do something else.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different formula but I've always liked: productivity = (time * effort)^talent Just as a general model.

let talent=0 then productivity = (time * effort)^0 = 1 = 100% Sounds about right

Yup! Time and effort absolutely count.

But the "star line" folk out of Heinlein's Beyond this Horizon are the ones that catapult the entire species forward.

The Wright brothers, the Norman Bourlags, the Nikola Teslas, the Alan Turings.

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