Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

771–780 of 1001 posts

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#771

Post by khazhoux »

Zvez wrote: post #566

I'm shocked how many support or at least 'it is ok' comments here, so I won't go to tell my opinion about OP or if this is acceptable in general. Instead just my personal answer. Yeah, I lie about how much time I put to work, when I for some reason decided to put some of my personal time to solve some problem, or improve something, or simply experimenting. I'm not proud of it, but it happens. Anyway, I never was in a…

Well, to make you feel worse, my non-western-country friend: this developer probably makes over $150-200K a year, for 5 hours of work every week. And almost everyone here is OK with that.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#772

Post by 10hr »

notJim wrote: post #103
syspec wrote: post #55

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Yes exactly this, especially at larger companies. I know a few of those developers, and they sit right near me... They find a way to make any task take forever... If it was a smaller company they would be called out, but at my [very, very] large company - its very hard to get f…

> I know a few of those developers, and they sit right near me... In fact, this is so common that I can name the exact people at several jobs I've had. And I could mention them to my coworkers and they'd know exactly what these people's reputation are. Our feeling toward them is a mix of being impressed and being embarrassed. Impressed because there's something to be said for someone who works the system to their adv…

"getting something cool done is rewarding in its own right. Why don't they want that feeling… ?"

I'm getting something cool done on some stuff I actually care about, like my gym gains. You can see other examples in this thread: family, their own coding project, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#773

Post by khazhoux »

ww520 wrote: post #659
soneca wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think OP is solving any problems

Well, he got great reviews, so his managers must have thought he made enough contributions.

Well, when you bullshit your teammates all year and tell them every day "Ah, I'm still working on this problem, it's a real tough one" (when really you're at home watching YouTube all day)...

and every three weeks you say "OK, I'm done with this tough problem -- next!" (when really you could have gotten it done in two days)...

and the schedule drags out but no blames you because, after all, you tell everyone at standup how busy you've been...

and in your review self-assessment, you use big descriptions for every small thing you bothered to do, knowing your manager isn't enough in the details to realize it...

then, yeah, at the end of the year, you've successfully suckered your manager into giving you a great review.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#774

Post by gatorvh »

5 hours a week is barely getting any work done at all and falls in the category of slacking. I’m surprised how this work ethic can survive and yet get promoted/rewarded. I have come across cases like the OP and have seen them either being fired or see good developers leave because bad work ethic is rewarded the same as developers with good work ethic and people who get things done and make progress are treated the same as slackers.

I believe it depends on how you look at work. The higher you climb the career ladder the more responsibilities you get. Everyday is an opportunity to make some progress — get something done, move forward, show up and make progress. Some days you are at the best of your mental capacity and some days you are not. It’s important to recognize those days and focus on low hanging fruits on low mental capacity days vs getting high value work done on good days. Managing yourself is a part of your job that’s not in the job description.

As a professional, it’s my responsibility to get my part done and make progress everyday. Things add up over long time. Similarly not getting work done does the opposite, let’s lot of backlog pile up.

If slacking is the result of procrastination or lack of attention or lack of motivation, I recommend people get help.

Imagine calling customer service rep and they just work 5 hours a week and imagine them responding to your requests a week or month from now. Imagine everyone working like this, society won’t function. Not doing your part for what you’re getting paid for seems unethical to me personally.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#776

Post by mostertoaster »

make_it_sure wrote: post #754

I'm negatively surprised how much people agree with this. He's a lazy guy and he knows that. I think there's way too much focus on HN for finding excuses for every bad behavior instead of correcting it.

It’s like we’re all actually lazy but justify it because we “think” during that time.

Though maybe we’re lazy because we’re tired. It takes a lot of energy to just deeply think about a problem, and it takes very little energy to do some mindless task. It’s like we’re super tired yet feel guilty because we weren’t hammering nails on a roof all day.

I wish I could work 12 hours a week doing software and like 20 doing electrical work as an electrician.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#777

Post by arcastroe »

ploxiln wrote: post #717

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Have I just been incredibly lucky and every boss I have had is too incompetent to notice? Do I have imposter syndrome and I am actually a 10x developer whose laziness makes them a 1x developer? Lazy developers don't really bother me, if you do a couple hours of high-quality wor…

(4 Choose 2) is 6. The quote only specified what to do with four of those combinations. What does one do with the other two?

Or is it just impossible to be both clever and stupid at the same time? I've had my share of both cleverly stupid ideas and stupidly clever ideas.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#778

Post by 10hr »

svaha1728 wrote: post #350

If you've ever seen the TV show Silicon Valley, "Big Head" played this archetype very well. There are always a few people in every company who do so. Consider yourself lucky in some ways; you probably haven't rocked anyone's boat, which might catapult you to management and beyond! If you don't go to management, it's probably worth doing another 5 hours of Leetcode each week. Regardless of how much work you do, the ca…

5hr/week is probably overkill, unless one wants to coast in FAANGs.

I've gotten into companies with one of my only skills being interviewing by just doing a slew of problems for a couple weeks and then interviewing a lot. Inevitably, some company just asks easy/med and I"m good to go

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#779

Post by sidazhou »

NaturalPhallacy wrote: post #648
sz4kerto wrote: post #9

I don’t think that what you’re doing is very common, but it’s not uncommon either. What you need to do this is to work in an environment where not being productive is not harmful. There are plenty of environments like this. For example, not doing any work but still getting paid doesn’t do any harm at Google. The company is making money anyway. At a small startup that’s under immense pressure people would realise what…

Different formula but I've always liked: productivity = (time * effort)^talent Just as a general model.

let talent=0 then productivity = (time * effort)^0 = 1 = 100% Sounds about right

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#780

Post by AtlasBarfed »

arcastroe wrote: post #777
ploxiln wrote: post #717

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Have I just been incredibly lucky and every boss I have had is too incompetent to notice? Do I have imposter syndrome and I am actually a 10x developer whose laziness makes them a 1x developer? Lazy developers don't really bother me, if you do a couple hours of high-quality wor…

(4 Choose 2) is 6. The quote only specified what to do with four of those combinations. What does one do with the other two? Or is it just impossible to be both clever and stupid at the same time? I've had my share of both cleverly stupid ideas and stupidly clever ideas.

It's two bits: lazy or industrious, clever or stupid.

So four combinations.

Post reply on HN