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Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

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Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#771

Post by exdsq »

theodric wrote: post #743
kungtotte wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make $42K in Sweden (not in IT), and it's comfortably high middle class. My wife doesn't even work full time and it's still enough for us to live comfortably within our means (own a house, two cars, one kid, etc.) If I'd been making $60K my wife could stop working. At $80K she wouldn't have to work and we'd still be moving into "new BMW every three years" kind of money. $80K goes a lot further in Europe than it doe…

American who has spent 16 years in Europe (Ireland, Netherlands, Switzerland). > $80K goes a lot further in Europe than it does in the US. I would like to see evidence supporting this assertion. Luxury meats are about the only thing I can think of that are more expensive stateside.

Depends where in Europe you are.

$80k in London as a single 20-something is great and you might be able to save a little while living central, while for a family of 4 it'd be much tighter and you'd live further out of the city.

$80k in Manchester and you'll have a comfortable life as a family of 4.

$80k in Poland and you'll be laughing in a luxury flat somewhere with no financial worries.

Europe is a large place and for the majority of countries and cities that is enough money to live extremely comfortably.

As for evidence, the average median salary in Europe is 16943€ or $18,947. The average salary in the US is three times this amount so sure - it goes 'a lot further in Europe'.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#772

Post by apohn »

joatmon-snoo wrote: post #306
md5wasp wrote: post #162

Hi there, I did the exact same thing as you (at Google Sydney), before eventually deciding that I must strike out into the wilderness. In the few years since I left; I worked as a solutions architect managing a team, a team lead, a remote dev, and now in a startup. Front-end, back-end, flip-side, all the ends. So I've been deliberately trying different angles of my career to see what suits. I'd describe this process…

Current Googler here; my solution to staving off complacency has been constantly asking myself if there are other problems I can and will work on - and they don't have to be problems on your team. (Although, I will say that at a certain point, if you're growing, I think your responsibilities should be shifting from solving problems to identifying/prioritizing the problems.) Every team has a looonnngggggg list of thin…

It's amazing to me to learn that you can help other teams solve problems at Google.

Every big company I've worked for (none of them FAANG), helping another team is a recipe for disaster. You will get your hand slapped, punished, blamed, and basically make your life much worse. Each team is super insulated and tries their best to hide behind their management chain because of this.

It's great that you can feel bored and look for other problems to solve and not just teach yourself something new to stay challenged.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#773

Post by owenmarshall »

czbond wrote: post #197
flavor8 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every day you stay at Google the more valuable you become. Ehhh, to a point. Straight out of college and then (e.g.) 10 or 15 years at the same company says a lot about a person.

While I see what you're getting at, and don't disagree, I have also noticed that the people that stay put while everyone else jumps ship provide a line of consistency that can get them promoted up. They say the stupid ones stay, and the smart ones leave.... but it isn't always intelligence that gets one promoted in such cases.

Knowing when to stick and when to twist is a vastly underrated skill.

A mentor of mine told me about his dot com bubble experience: he was in a company that was in trouble - leadership changes, the mission became diluted, and top talent started planning exits. Rather than leave, he stayed, they improved, he became CTO.

I took his advice when my last job was going through a "digital transformation": read "downsizing and outsourcing". I knew where the winds were blowing but took his advice because it was a large enterprise and these changes move slowly. Waiting gave me a measurable impact in terms of salary, bonus, and title – and that impact carried over.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#774

Post by jimbokun »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #187
dhuyrv wrote: post #130

You remind me myself a few years ago: a talented, but bored slacker who didn't see any point in investing any energy into that project. Turns out I was right: the project didn't go anywhere after I left and investing any extra time would be a clueless thing to do. So what's changed since then? Have I found meaning in work? No! I've become a professional slacker who knows all these psychological tricks, knows what bod…

This blows my mind that in the US one can make such insane money in tech while still being a slacker and retire early with a dream house bought and paid for while in Europe devs are slaving away through SCRUM powered meat grinders burning themselves out for a 3% salary increase on a pitiful 40-80k/year, no stock options, without any hope of early retirement or owning a decent home without a 30 year loan or financial…

Seems like a trade off between the functioning health care system and affordable education and sane time off and and leave policies for you Europeans...and the significantly higher salaries here in the USA.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#775

Post by [deleted] »

thrownaway954 wrote: post #613
md5wasp wrote: post #162

Hi there, I did the exact same thing as you (at Google Sydney), before eventually deciding that I must strike out into the wilderness. In the few years since I left; I worked as a solutions architect managing a team, a team lead, a remote dev, and now in a startup. Front-end, back-end, flip-side, all the ends. So I've been deliberately trying different angles of my career to see what suits. I'd describe this process…

"If you stay at Google, make the most of it by progressing deliberately in your social life. If I'd've stayed, I could have comfortably raised some kids with my wife by now - but that's still on the todo list." THIS all the way. When we are young, we think that we will be remembered by the company that we worked for and the people that we worked with. The sad truth is that in 99.9999% none of those people will rememb…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#776

Post by wazoox »

jaynetics wrote: post #664
Galanwe wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in Europe devs are slaving away through SCRUM powered meat grinders burning themselves out for a 3% salary increase on a pitiful 40-80k/year There is so much wrong in this sentence. First, there is no more “meat grinders” in the US than in Europe. I worked at Microsoft and Criteo in Europe, and the slacking there seems to be on par with what OP describes. You mention 40/80k per year being pitiful? This kind of remu…

> You mention 40/80k per year being pitiful? This kind of remuneration puts you in the top 10%/5% of France population easily. These numbers are surely off. Must be more like 40%/10%. And I'd bet that a double-digit percentage of devs earn less than 40k and only very few earn 80k. Factor in that this is a job that is concentrated in big cities with a high cost of living, and these numbers don't look that great.

Average net salary in France hovers at 2300€/month, median net salary is ~1800€/month. At ~3200€/month you're straight in the high 10% from official statistics.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#777

Post by wwarner »

I thought about this over the weekend, and I have two comments. First, to commenters, this kind of dead end happens at all large companies, so it's unfair to criticize this individual or Google without taking into account that the same thing happens at Apple, Microsoft, Walmart, IBM, Siemens and any other big organization that will survive its founders. While the large corporation participates in a market economy to make revenue, internally it is a command economy, and to my mind resembles an assemblage of regiments, directed by commanders who have different marching orders, rationally designed by the executive to head off competition for both the core business and the future business. The number of people required to make the core business work is absurdly small. The odds against the success of any of the speculative projects are absurdly high. So most people working at a big company are working as bench players in the core business, or on fanciful, doomed projects. This has to be the case -- we're in the business of automation after all.

Second, it's immoral for an individual contributor to resign themselves to this fate. The lost opportunity is terrible for both the individual and society. Be where the action is!

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#778

Post by botondus »

thrownaway954 wrote: post #613
md5wasp wrote: post #162

Hi there, I did the exact same thing as you (at Google Sydney), before eventually deciding that I must strike out into the wilderness. In the few years since I left; I worked as a solutions architect managing a team, a team lead, a remote dev, and now in a startup. Front-end, back-end, flip-side, all the ends. So I've been deliberately trying different angles of my career to see what suits. I'd describe this process…

"If you stay at Google, make the most of it by progressing deliberately in your social life. If I'd've stayed, I could have comfortably raised some kids with my wife by now - but that's still on the todo list." THIS all the way. When we are young, we think that we will be remembered by the company that we worked for and the people that we worked with. The sad truth is that in 99.9999% none of those people will rememb…

I'm sorry to hear that you are going through such tough times.

If you still have issues with alcohol use I strongly suggest you check out an Alcoholics Anonymous (https://aa.org/) group near you. Give it a chance, it will likely be very helpful.

About depression/emotional pain/suicidal thoughts first of all it would be very good to see a professional (doctor / psychologist) about this, they can help you. You may also talk to a friend if you have someone you feel you can talk to.

Try some daily activities that occupy your mind and/or body for a while: reading, running, walks in the park, workout in the gym, yoga, prayer. Whatever you can do.

You don't have to face everything alone, it's ok to ask for help.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#779

Post by usefulcat »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #752
usefulcat wrote: post #745

Clearly you're not very interested in the work you're now doing at google. So the question is, is it this particular job that you're not interested in, or is it that you're just not that interested in programming? Probably the best way to find out is to try a different job. P.S. -- there would be no need to 'keep yourself accountable' if you were genuinely interested in what you were doing.

> P.S. -- there would be no need to 'keep yourself accountable' if you were genuinely interested in what you were doing. Unless the dullness burns you out / demotivates you.

'Burnout' tends to imply overwork, but that doesn't sound like the case here; OP states they are doing the minimum amount of work to get by.

IME, boredom at a particular job coupled with a genuine interest in programming in general tends to result in finding a more interesting job or more time spent on side/personal projects. But that's not what I'm getting from OP's description.

Sometimes people are very reluctant to ask fundamental questions of themselves, like 'is this really what I want to be doing with my life?', especially when they have a lot invested in the status quo. So to me this sounds like the kind of problem where the first step is sufficient understanding of oneself.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#780

Post by sailingparrot »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #360
Galanwe wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in Europe devs are slaving away through SCRUM powered meat grinders burning themselves out for a 3% salary increase on a pitiful 40-80k/year There is so much wrong in this sentence. First, there is no more “meat grinders” in the US than in Europe. I worked at Microsoft and Criteo in Europe, and the slacking there seems to be on par with what OP describes. You mention 40/80k per year being pitiful? This kind of remu…

>there is no more “meat grinders” in the US than in Europe. I worked at Microsoft and Criteo in Europe, and the slacking there seems to be on par with what OP describes. That's very specifically anecdotal. Not everyone in Europe works or has the opportunity to work at big wealthy corps like the ones you mentioned. Europe is not as clustered as SV so the quality and pay of jobs varies immensely on your location. I can…

> Not everyone in Europe works or has the opportunity to work at big wealthy corps like the ones you mentioned.

Because you think 90% of people in the US works in 'big wealthy corps'?

You probably have a skewed opinion based on what you see on hacker news. For the overwhelming majority, the condition are pretty similar to what you describe: A SCRUM point driven job, where you just implement whatever boring BS you are asked for a product you most likely don't care about, with a mediocre pay, and no job security.

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