Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#751

Post by hycaria » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

kungtotte wrote: post #729

m0zg wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you able to buy real estate in a decent location? Because if you can't, you're not "high middle class". Housing is not a luxury.

Yes, we are able to buy real estate in a decent location. We live not far outside Stockholm where prices are really high compared to the rest of the country, and we had no problems buying our house. My salary is ~twice the median income for this area, and by any measure we're at the upper end of middle class by Swedish standards.

Not far outside is a very lax definition. A 500K Mortgage (affordable with aforementioned salaries) gets you a 2 bedroom in good neighborhoods in Paris, 3 in lesser ones. Sure, if you're ready to go 20 km away you can get a rather nice house at that price (say 100-150m2 with a garden of variable size), but at the cost of commuting 30min-1hr everyday.

Anyways, I wouldn't consider someone establishing outside of an european city (esp when working there) "high middle class". If you can't afford central housing of your choice, you dont qualify.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#752

Post by giancarlostoro » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 2:41 PM UTC

usefulcat wrote: post #745

Clearly you're not very interested in the work you're now doing at google. So the question is, is it this particular job that you're not interested in, or is it that you're just not that interested in programming? Probably the best way to find out is to try a different job. P.S. -- there would be no need to 'keep yourself accountable' if you were genuinely interested in what you were doing.

> P.S. -- there would be no need to 'keep yourself accountable' if you were genuinely interested in what you were doing.

Unless the dullness burns you out / demotivates you.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#753

Post by JohnBooty » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 2:42 PM UTC

notJim wrote: post #532

samplatt wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>everyone else is so incompetent because he doesn't try and still looks good I'd argue against the "talent lottery" idea. Over the last 10 years as a software dev I'd argue that the 10x "rockstar" dev certainly exists, but it's almost always a case of situation/environment matching an already-moderately-talented employee extremely well. I've seen a lot of slackers suddenly explode into a powerhouse when given the rig…

I've seen one "10x" developer in my career. The way he worked was basically to leave a massive wake of data corruption, technical debt and bugs that other people would spend months fixing. Management will never notice, because everyone just accepts these things as part of doing business, and doesn't ask any questions about where it comes from or whether it was the right tradeoff. The tech debt itself doesn't bother m…

    I've seen one "10x" developer in my career. The way he 
    worked was basically to leave a massive wake of data 
    corruption, technical debt and bugs that other people 
    would spend months fixing.

Amen. I've known one real "10x" developer in several decades. He was truly something of a savant.

I also worked with another alleged 10x developer. He was quite good, but was also given the bulk of the greenfield work and left a massive trail of technical debt in his wake.

    Management will never notice, because everyone just accepts 
    these things as part of doing business, and doesn't ask any   
    questions about where it comes from or whether it was the right 
    tradeoff. The tech debt itself doesn't bother me that much

The tech debt absolutely bothers me. It is so destructive to productivity and morale.

We had mountains of technical debt in an overstuffed monolith app. Our test suite alone took close to an hour to run and was flaky.

Management was openly hostile and derisive about attempts to address this debt. They were not engineers so it was like a laughing matter to them. "You want to have a portion of the team focus on something other than SHIPPING? Are you mad?"

Idiots. Some of the smartest idiots in the world, but idiots.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#754

Post by bob33212 » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

stefek99 wrote: post #704

dhuyrv wrote: post #130

You remind me myself a few years ago: a talented, but bored slacker who didn't see any point in investing any energy into that project. Turns out I was right: the project didn't go anywhere after I left and investing any extra time would be a clueless thing to do. So what's changed since then? Have I found meaning in work? No! I've become a professional slacker who knows all these psychological tricks, knows what bod…

"professional slacker who knows all these psychological tricks" You are my spiritual brother! Same here... I was really motivated in my 1st and 2nd job after leaving uni. Then the gravity kicks in, realized that noone wants me to work extra hard as that only makes other people look bad.

Just lean into that. Start automating peoples jobs or making their jobs irrelevant. The management will take note of the concerns of the others and put you in your own group. Now that you have established that you are 5x more productive than the other employees while only making 20% more, management will not care if you slack off and only work 5 hours a week.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#755

Post by Galanwe » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 2:44 PM UTC

christophilus wrote: post #742

Galanwe wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in Europe devs are slaving away through SCRUM powered meat grinders burning themselves out for a 3% salary increase on a pitiful 40-80k/year There is so much wrong in this sentence. First, there is no more “meat grinders” in the US than in Europe. I worked at Microsoft and Criteo in Europe, and the slacking there seems to be on par with what OP describes. You mention 40/80k per year being pitiful? This kind of remu…

> Your 80k€ gross in e.g. France should be the equivalent of $150k for a US worker I hear this a lot, but if you're earning $150K in the US, you almost certainly have 100% medical coverage. At least, I do, and everyone I know does. The US medical system is broken, but it's OK for high-income earners. It's the low-to-middle income folks who are really hurt by it. > retirement savings Again, if you're earning $150K in…

Just to be clear, I don't want to enter any kind of comparison between EU and US pension/medical systems here!

All I'm saying, is that contribution to e.g. a 401k will be done after the $150k (even though the employer will contribute with e.g. 1:1 ratio).

Whereas in EU the retirement contribution is already done before the 80k euro. Actually, MANY other contributions will happen before that 80k EUR.

Thus, you cannot compare _directly_ EU and US salaries, you need to adjust for a rough estimate of everything that was already deducted from the EU 80k!

This is why I mention that it is more _fair_ to compare EU super-gross against US gross, because both are expressed before the heavy medical/unemployment/retirement contributions.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#756

Post by neuronic » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 2:50 PM UTC

JohnBooty wrote: post #497

chii wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fostering the web tracking industry because consumers don't want to pay for anything. It's easier to extract private data, and sell that to a corporation for a lot of money, than to extract a small premium from each user (which is like squeezing blood from stone).

Yep. This battle was lost way, way back in the 90s when we collectively decided that everything on the Internet should be free. I think it's one of the great lost opportunities in human history. I don't know what the "correct" course of action would have been, instead of making everything ad-supported and mostly terrible. Some kind of very very seamless micropayments? Maybe there was no "correct choice." Maybe "free,…

Watch VR when it (or rather if) it takes off. Then ads will truly be squeezed into our eyeballs in the most literal sense.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#757

Post by eloff » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 2:51 PM UTC

thrownaway954 wrote: post #613

md5wasp wrote: post #162

Hi there, I did the exact same thing as you (at Google Sydney), before eventually deciding that I must strike out into the wilderness. In the few years since I left; I worked as a solutions architect managing a team, a team lead, a remote dev, and now in a startup. Front-end, back-end, flip-side, all the ends. So I've been deliberately trying different angles of my career to see what suits. I'd describe this process…

"If you stay at Google, make the most of it by progressing deliberately in your social life. If I'd've stayed, I could have comfortably raised some kids with my wife by now - but that's still on the todo list." THIS all the way. When we are young, we think that we will be remembered by the company that we worked for and the people that we worked with. The sad truth is that in 99.9999% none of those people will rememb…

It can be tough to have hope in the moment, but things will get better again if you hang in there, and you'll be eternally grateful to yourself for toughing it out. You'll also wonder how you could have been so pessimistic and silly to think there was no hope, you'll want to travel back in time just to slap yourself.

You're young, you made some mistakes, but you learned from them. You are better off than those who still haven't learned. You have plenty of time to build a new, better life for yourself. With a new, younger wife, if that's your thing. Some people will probably take offense at that last part, but I'm not talking Epstein young, I'm just saying his ex was probably 40 something, and his new wife can be a hotter 30 something if that's important to him.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#758

Post by OGWhales » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 2:52 PM UTC

reactspa wrote: post #221

zzzcarrot wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on the observed personality thing? How do you do this?

E.g.: I'm a jeans & t-shirt kinda guy. However, I now dress a little more formally (business casual) because it leads to better outcomes. I've not gotten around to wearing suits even though that would be even better. A little more strategic: I usually wear at least one item of clothing with my employer's logo visible on it. (Gives off a "corporate citizen" vibe.) A far cry from the recent past when I'd carry a laptop…

Anything more substantial than dressing up? That seems obvious to me and not something I'd need a book to tell me.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#759

Post by JohnBooty » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 2:53 PM UTC

zerr wrote: post #552

sytelus wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it makes you feel better, op is not representative of developers in US. He is not even representative of people at Google or other big tech. Most people do work their ass off, some even on weekends and holidays. You are looking at a "lottery" winner and thinking life is unfair to you. In this case its not even lottery because such slacking off in your most productive young years severely limits your career choices…

Europe is big and very diverse place. Uber driver in midwest (US) makes more than a senior dev in Spain, Italy or Greece.

An Uber driver in the midwest US can die from a simple treatable disease (or ruin himself financially) because he might not have health insurance.

   Europe is big and very diverse place. Uber driver in 
   midwest (US) makes more than a senior dev in Spain, 
   Italy or Greece.

You can't just do a simple currency conversion to compare them, because the costs of living are very different.

A senior dev in these countries will have a nice standard of living. Much better than an Uber driver in the midwest US. As an Uber driver you would be very lucky to even make money considered "middle class."

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#760

Post by Galanwe » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 2:57 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #720

Galanwe wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely missing the point here. Not only are you trying to argue against things that I did not say, but you are also comparing things that cannot. What Europeans call "gross" salary is NOT what Americans call "gross" salary. And you are mixing them together, which is exactly what my comment was trying to prevent. > the comparison of 80k euros being less than $150k, because retirement savings will come out…

In both countries, there is an employer contribution and an employee contribution. In both countries, “gross” income excludes the employer contribution. In the US, it also excludes employer-paid health insurance premiums. In France, it excludes the employer-paid health insurance tax. As to the precise mix, I don’t think it’s accurate to say that more will be paid by the employer in Europe. In both countries, medical…

You are mistaken, because you do not take into account the whole contributions that are deducted between gross and super-gross. Medical care is just one of them and it adds up to WAY more than 8%.

Here is a break down of what that would look like for a French employee:

(1) Starting with a super gross of 130k EUR / year ($145k):

- Deduct retirement contribution

- Deduct health care contribution

- Deduct family contribution

- Deduct public housing contribution

- Deduct unemployment contribution

- Deduct professional disease contribution

- Deduct employee formation contribution

- Deduct elderly contribution

- Some other contributions

(2) You end up with a gross salary of ~80k EUR / year ($90k):

- Deduct employee contribution to all the above

(3) You end up with a net salary of ~50k / year ($55k).

You can do the computation yourself from the calculator on the french government website:

https://www.economie.gouv.fr/entreprises/simulateur-cout-emb...