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Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

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Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#741

Post by LawTalkingGuy »

tdeck wrote: post #739
LawTalkingGuy wrote: post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a burden of proof situation because your boss is paying the bill. But, if it was about who claimed what, the employees are the ones making the claim that "remote work is just as productive".

If it's about the boss's power, they can always just fire people who won't come into the office. If the boss doesn't want to do that, they've got to do the convincing. You either convince people or order them around and live with the morale consequences.

You're being paid so you can't claim to be outraged at being told to work. If your morale issues aren't handled by your salary then you should simply leave. Investigate contracting.

If you need convincing to return the the office you were hired to work in then you probably aren't the type of employee a boss would want to retain.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#742

Post by 6510 »

LawTalkingGuy wrote: post #738
tdeck wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where's the analysis of the job to see if it can really be performed ideally remotely. Where's the analysis that says it can't? If you want my ass in the office, shouldn't the burden of proof be on you?

It's not a burden of proof situation because your boss is paying the bill. But, if it was about who claimed what, the employees are the ones making the claim that "remote work is just as productive".

The work is exchanged for the money. If either party has room to demand more it is because the other is in abundant supply.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#743

Post by tdeck »

LawTalkingGuy wrote: post #741
tdeck wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's about the boss's power, they can always just fire people who won't come into the office. If the boss doesn't want to do that, they've got to do the convincing. You either convince people or order them around and live with the morale consequences.

You're being paid so you can't claim to be outraged at being told to work. If your morale issues aren't handled by your salary then you should simply leave. Investigate contracting. If you need convincing to return the the office you were hired to work in then you probably aren't the type of employee a boss would want to retain.

> Your morale issues aren't handled by your salary then you should simply leave.

If you're a "manager", morale issues on the team are your issues. This is basic, obvious stuff; if the manager isn't comfortable thinking about these things, maybe they should leave their job?

Again, if you don't like the way an employee works, you can order them to change it. If they don't, you can fire them. But you seem to be under the impression that "I'm the boss" is some kind of rational or moral argument and that employees need to feel a certain way about following your orders and realize that you were right all along. "I'm not threatening, I'm just convincing you with the argument that I'm the boss".

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#744

Post by subradios »

watwut wrote: post #671
subradios wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unfortunate fact is that at least in the US, even if you live in a "walkable", "transit oriented" city, there is no way to run a business that's community oriented. Which means that the only actual community available is your work community. How are you supposed to "build relationships outside of work" in that environment? I get that your opinion of this is that it's degenerate, and this may be true - but have so…

> there is no way to run a business that's community oriented. Which means that the only actual community available is your work community. Actual community does not requires a business. Building relationships does not require business either. I did not said it is degenerate. But it is dishonest when what I described is framed as somehow being more performing, because of spending more time in workplace slowing down e…

Actually it does, or religion. I'm assuming you're not a fan of evangelicals?

That seems like a barb, but the fact is that it's quite difficult to maintain community organizations without a central business or religious organization. However, profit maximization and digital first precludes physical community, where you have the people you have. Everyone can opt out and play WoW instead.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#745

Post by balaji1 »

jleyank wrote: post #436
balaji1 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also open offices are the norm in many places -- so any company wanting a non-open office has to face going counter culture alone; apart from having to figure out logistics involved in setting up cubicles and offices. Some of us don't even know what non-open office looks like. Closest I have seen is the rooms of high ranking execs, doctors and professors lol.

Err, this sorta proves my point re: a younger staff...

Yep I was adding to your point. People who wfh are building nicer and nicer home offices also -- or at least fantasizing about it haha. And such an office is nearly impossible in a conventional work office building.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#746

Post by hirvi74 »

rafaelero wrote: post #698
hirvi74 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I have some sort of Office-PTSD or something, but I make it very clear to my coworkers that we can be friendly, but we aren't friends. You don't need my cellphone number, we don't need to go grab drinks after work, etc.. I've just noticed that if you turn your back for a second, then out come the wolves. Less coffee pot talk the better as far as I am concerned. I have my friends and life outside of work, and I…

> but I make it very clear to my coworkers that we can be friendly, but we aren't friends ??????

Tell me about your kids, your weekend, etc. and I will listen. We can grab lunch even. But we aren't hanging out after work, going to bars, coming over to my house, I don't want to go to theirs, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#747

Post by hkxer »

skirmish wrote: post #736
abeppu wrote: post #145

Before the pandemic and surge of remote work, a lot of us complained not just about going to the office, but that the office itself was pretty crappy. The open plan creates an environment of high distraction, low privacy, and physical discomfort. Whether or not people wanted to listen to music or anything for hours at a time, they were pushed to do it just to drown out a constant background noise of words that are hi…

Indeed. I noticed my hearing was getting worse since in office I kept increasing music volume in (futile) attempts to block out chatterboxes at the next desk. Destroying your health is not worth whatever faster promotions in-office work promises.

Noise canceling headphones?

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#748

Post by PraetorianGourd »

cranium wrote: post #370

It may be a (over?)reaction to the generally poor working conditions in an office that suddenly do not exist when working at home. No manager passing by and disrupting your focus, no commute nightmare, no open space with distractions all around, no being physically captive when you are out of juice,... At home you are less constrained, and some people will value this freedom higher than the loss of social bond. I'm i…

No post body was provided.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#749

Post by PraetorianGourd »

Part of me can’t wait until you all are outsourced to a team in Lima for 25% of the cost. Everyone here seems to think they are so special. I am warning you, someone who is 75% as talented as you that will work for 50% the salary is a fucking miracle. Stop pretending you are special.. you aren’t!

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#750

Post by jjav »

hkxer wrote: post #747
skirmish wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I noticed my hearing was getting worse since in office I kept increasing music volume in (futile) attempts to block out chatterboxes at the next desk. Destroying your health is not worth whatever faster promotions in-office work promises.

Noise canceling headphones?

Noise canceling headphones don't do anything against human voices, which is the noise problem in open offices.
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