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Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

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Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#731
There may be good reasons to try going to another company rather than Google. If you've only been promoted once in six years, especially straight out of college --- that's not a normal career trajectory, and so it's probably obvious to your manager and your colleagues that you have been slacking.

On the other hand, going to another company may or may not help that much either, and for two reasons. First, depending on where you are inside Google, the technologies which you have picked up may not be all that useful outside of Google. More importantly, and you've pointed that out for yourself, if you don'y have habit --- and the curiosity --- to deeply learn new the technologies you are working with, you're probably going to struggle wherever you are.

Spending a month for each new technology that you think you need to learn is not going to be enough to deeply become an expert in any of them. Also, it sounds like you have some not-so-great work habits, such as not doing the best possible job you can with any assignment you have been given. Shaking those is also going to be helpful for you, no matter where you are.

So... here's what I would suggest for you. First, spend as much time working on yourself as you so working on "new technologies". Try reading books such as Steven Covey's The Seven Habits of Highly Effective people. I found listening to books such as Brian Tracey's Success Audio Tapes to be helpful in my early career. If you are more spiritually minded, some of Og Mandino's books are old classics.

Secondly, try to bump your performance review ranking at least one level each cycle, until you are getting strongly exceeds expectations. Not because you necessarily want to stay at Google, but because of the self-confidence that this will hopefully help you gain. And tell your manager that (a) you feel that you've been slacking, and (b) that you want to do better. If your manager is any good, they will want to work with you. Try to get promoted at least once more at Google. Why? Because if you are going to try to strike out at some other company, people who understood Google's performance levels will not necessarily be impressed if you have been at Google for six years, and are still a SWE III.

Finally, once you have a string of good ratings so it will be easier for you to try moving to another teams, you might want to consider working at some team which has contact with outside customers, especially in the Cloud PA. This will give you a lot of contact with external technologies, since customers will use a variety of different software components.

Please do keep in mind, first and foremost, that it's all about how you can add the most business value, no matter what company you happen to be working at, and no matter which customers you are trying to help. It's that work attitude which is going to be the most important, which is why I started this by suggesting that you work on your soft skills as much as your technology skills. In addition to listening to various success tapes while I was commuting to work, I also made sure I knew how to read a balance sheet and monthly income/expense reports. I also took supplementary classes in management (which my employer paid for) for subjects such as "Law for the I/T Manager" at the MIT Sloan School. This is all going to be super useful, especially if you think you want to leave Google; at large companies, you can get by just being a technology specialist, but if you are working for yourself, or at a small company, being a well-rounded employee who can understand various business and legal issues will stand you in good stead.

The bottom line is you need to wake your curiosity to learn as much as you can in a wide variety of subjects; not because you want to get a good/interesting job elsewhere, but for its own sake. And you need to develop good work habits and have the internal drive to do the best that you can no matter where you are. Jumping ship to some other company isn't going to change who you are; and you may find that it is much more about you than your environment.

If you want to discuss this more, look me at at Google and I'm happy to chat some more. My ldap is the obvious one at google.com.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, first of all, lose that sense of entitlement. It's hard to think of much that's less appealing than petulance. It's also a pretty great way to blind yourself to what 'league' you're actually in. A number of my tech friends have wasted an extraordinary amount of time chasing women absurdly out of their league because they've been convinced that "having a decent job", "being well-spoken" and "eating with their mo…

> lose that sense of entitlement When you are told you need to meet specific criteria to achieve a goal, it's not entitlement to expect those criteria to lead to that goal. When trying to get people to listen to what you are saying, try not to start with a put-down.

Who on earth (in USA I should say) actually listens to their parents in this matter?

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#733
post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The max I negotiated in Europe was $125000, an ok start up salary was maybe $80000 and I am currently - with lots of non-money benefits at around $70000. I'm currently at $160k (as a contractor, assuming 5 weeks of per year). Could have had more, but I'm currently in low cost of living country (former soviet block), so any move would be offset by increase in taxes and costs of living. You can make good money in Eur…

Can I ask what you do (and where)? That's absolutely insane money for former soviet states, probably equivalent of >>1 mil in the bay area.

Poland, big data developer and architect for a multinational finance company, that's offshored some of its IT to Poland.

For them, $160k is for sure more than they've intended to pay when they opened offices here, but there are just no qualified people who would do that for less (as qualified people f off to London, Switzerland etc. and get paid even more), so in the end they hire me and people like me. We're still cheaper than equivalent talent in company's home country.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#734
post #130

You remind me myself a few years ago: a talented, but bored slacker who didn't see any point in investing any energy into that project. Turns out I was right: the project didn't go anywhere after I left and investing any extra time would be a clueless thing to do. So what's changed since then? Have I found meaning in work? No! I've become a professional slacker who knows all these psychological tricks, knows what bod…

Imagine the hellscape we'd live in if everyone followed this advice. Sociopathy doesn't scale very well.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#735
post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Engineers in places like SFBA severely underestimate how attractive they would be anywhere else in the country/world. I agree completely. > Her exes and her friends' husbands are shockingly anti-intellectual, didn't attend college, have some substance abuse issues, and/or make well under 6 figures. Here's what happened: Guys who are intellectual, attended college, have good discipline, and stayed away from substanc…

> The few women who moved to the Bay can have their pick. I don't think so. It's only when males are desperate to settle; living alone and spending their money on their hobbies/travel might be a much more attractive option to them than to bind to an unattractive female that went to SFBA specifically to capture a high-value male.

I think you underestimate the situation haha. Your perception of attractiveness is based on who’s around you. If the average around you is by New York standards a 5, then a 6 is above-average attractive. And a 7 is a solid catch.

Women in the Bay Area can easily score a few points higher than in more competitive cities and the opposite is true for men.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#736
post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about a specific man and physical attractiveness is just one of many aspects. In aggregate, it seems reasonable to believe that the gender imbalance causes men to lower their standards. > Dude sounds like catch. That's sort of the point.

The interesting think for me is that all discussions about relationships on hn boils down to money and looks (gym for guys, I guess makeup and diet for girls). And the idea of match is "willing to let me pay for her". There is no other standard for suitable partner ever mentioned. No expectation of shared values or similar livestyle (except valuing looks). No expectation of mutual support. And the experts on what wom…

It gets a lot easier to understand when you realize that most women are looking for a life partner while most men are looking for a sex partner. You are more careful with life partners, so there will always be a surplus of men available for dating looking for sex, and most of them will fake looking for a life partner just to get more opportunities since there are so few women who are into the same things.

This means that for you as a woman dating is first and foremost about separating life partners from sex partners. Your advice goes in that direction. But it is totally worthless for men, most women they meet will be looking for a life partner so they are not hard to find. Instead men face the problem that most women are very reluctant to date them, so men mostly need advice how to get more dates.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#737
post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you stay at Google, make the most of it by progressing deliberately in your social life. If I'd've stayed, I could have comfortably raised some kids with my wife by now - but that's still on the todo list. Uh oh. Unseen Risk Fallacy Just because you don't experience risk, doesn't mean it does not exist. The company just hides risk from you, but it's still there, culminating without feedback. As raising a child i…

> Uh oh. Unseen Risk Fallacy a bit off topic, but couldn't identifying fallacies in arguments be automated? how much better would the discussion be if comments were labeled with likelihood of fallacy?

Given that this thread is the only instance of the phrase "Unseen Risk Fallacy", I'm not too sure that it will work as well as you'd hope. Fallacies are subtle and even in the best of cases only point out holes in someone's argumentation, which doesn't tell you much about the conclusion.

If anything automatic labelling of fallacies just risks running foul of the fallacy fallacy.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Engineers in places like SFBA severely underestimate how attractive they would be anywhere else in the country/world. I agree completely. > Her exes and her friends' husbands are shockingly anti-intellectual, didn't attend college, have some substance abuse issues, and/or make well under 6 figures. Here's what happened: Guys who are intellectual, attended college, have good discipline, and stayed away from substanc…

if what she cares about is income, that's pretty damned sad.

Being a woman dating in the Bay Area is like that gif with the hot dogs thrown at your face. You’ve gotta start cutting somewhere and why not there?

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely missing the point here. Not only are you trying to argue against things that I did not say, but you are also comparing things that cannot. What Europeans call "gross" salary is NOT what Americans call "gross" salary. And you are mixing them together, which is exactly what my comment was trying to prevent. > the comparison of 80k euros being less than $150k, because retirement savings will come out…

I don't know anyone who calls take-home (net) pay gross salary in Europe. I have lived and worked in multiple countries. And the actual gross is definitely displayed on the payslips.

> I don't know anyone who calls take-home (net) pay gross salary in Europe. I have lived and worked in multiple countries.

That is not what I am saying...

There are basically 3 stages of income in Europe: employer gross -> employee gross -> employee net.

Most Europeans refer to employee gross as simply “gross”. There are still the employee contribution part to be deducted before the net, but the whole employer contribution has completely been removed already.

Payslips as well as employment contracts usually display the employee gross. That is why the real total compensation including the employer contribution is rarely displayed anywhere in Europe and people forget about it, thus creating the incompréhension of this whole comment thread, where people compare incomparable incomes.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely missing the point here. Not only are you trying to argue against things that I did not say, but you are also comparing things that cannot. What Europeans call "gross" salary is NOT what Americans call "gross" salary. And you are mixing them together, which is exactly what my comment was trying to prevent. > the comparison of 80k euros being less than $150k, because retirement savings will come out…

I don't know anyone who calls take-home (net) pay gross salary in Europe. I have lived and worked in multiple countries. And the actual gross is definitely displayed on the payslips.

Let me try to reformulate OP's comment. In many European countries, there are three deduction levels: (1) the net salary, after all taxes and health and social care deductions, (2) the gross salary, after all mandatory employer contributions to the health and social care systems (3) the total cost of an employee to the employer (the English equivalent of the term used in Czechia would be "super-gross" salary). OP's point was that first, in the EU, there is often a big difference between (2) and (3), whereas they are very close or equal in the US, and second, gross salary usually refers to (2) in the EU and to (3) in the US.

That said, I don't think that the difference between (2) and (3) is as big as suggested by the OP even in the EU, at least in the countries that I'm familiar with.

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