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Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#71

Post by michaelochurch »

However, it seems after a year or two in the company, the honeymoon period ends and the only thing I can see is the bullshit coming out of management's mouth. Bogus business plans, inability to close deals, short-sighted decisions, petty management techniques, overly frequent pivots, you name it...

Those are signs that it's a good idea to move on. Yes, this is common. Sturgeon's Law: 90 Percent of Everything Is Crap.

For me, it tends to happen after 3-6 months. I'm pretty good at detecting bullshit and it's a curse because it's hard to be motivated when you lose faith in the people above.

Am I 1/ Bad at choosing my jobs, 2/ Too demanding towards the companies that hire me, 3/ Mentally unstable, 4/ Unrealistic, 5/ Just a normal bullshit intolerant guy ?

A mix of #1 and #5. Definitely not #3, if you can hold a job for 1-2 years. #2, #4 are what "they" want you to think. (Ever notice how the Boomer whining about Gen-X/Millennial entitlement sounds extremely entitled itself?) Those are subjective calls (over what is "too demanding") but I think that if you can hold your rage well enough to keep a job for 2 years, the problem isn't with you.

You'll get better at choosing jobs as you get older, because you learn the warning signs and get better at finding good people. Then you'll just talk to people you trust to get the true story of what's happening at a company.

Is there any way I can find a boss I respect beyond a couple of years?

Well, there's no 100% reliable way. You have to take risks on people just like they are taking risks on you. However, you get better at this over time.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#72

Post by adamzerner »

jfasi wrote: post #53

I think it would be helpful to try to understand the perspective of management. Consider an extreme stereotype: the "business school guy." He went to XYZ school of management, where he learned that a business is an organization that takes in raw materials and creates something more valuable than the sum of the unfinished parts. He learned how to raise money by selling his business idea to other people who think like…

I agree that if you took the perspective of management, that you'd understand more of where they're coming for and cut them a little more slack. However, I still doubt that you could forgive them for all of this stuff - "Bogus business plans, inability to close deals, short-sighted decisions, petty management techniques, overly frequent pivots, you name it...".

> Instead of asking yourself "does this management know what it's doing?" ask yourself "does this management make me better as a professional?" If you can say "yes" to the second question, the answer to the first question doesn't matter. The company can fail, but if you come out of it better than you came in, you still succeeded.

The question isn't "did they make me better?". It's "did they make me better than the best alternative". Opportunity cost. Working for a shitty company might make you better as a professional, but not better than your alternatives.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#73

Post by kchoudhu »

notastartup wrote: post #42
aculver wrote: post #32

You are none of the above. If you've got a few years of development experience in companies like that, I recommend you "find a boss [you] respect" by becoming your own boss. Start with consulting. These engagements are different than employment because often times they're not full-time and you can stagger a couple of contracts together at the same time. This is to your advantage because you now have two "bosses" (cli…

Where do you find such consulting work? Surely not craigslist . Then where? Should I buy leads from Adwords? Do you need to become a partner for an ERP software company? How successful will you be calling yourself a 'consultant'.

Alumni list for my university has been helpful.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#74

Post by RyanZAG »

Most startups fail. Most entrepreneurs are likely very poor managers who end up stuck in that role because they happened to be the founders. What you're describing is pretty common.

I think the best bet if you're the type of person who can't help but care too much is to just keep trying. Eventually you should find a founder who is a better breed - although you'll only ever know once some pressure builds. You can't measure a founder at the start - only when money is low or something isn't going well.

Alternatively, give it a shot and start up your own company. It's hard but at least you'll be the terrible manager doing frequent pivots.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#75

Post by runako »

You have an obvious lack of respect for the difficulty of running the business side of a business:

>> Bogus business plans, inability to close deals, short-sighted decisions, petty management techniques, overly frequent pivots, you name it...

This presents a killer opportunity for personal growth: go start your own business. You'll either learn that you are a masterful business planner, only making high-minded long-term decisions & closing deals left and right, and you'll be super successful.

OR you will grow as a person and learn that there are at least two sides to every business decision.

Either way, you'll grow as a person through the experience.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#77

Post by runako »

neutralino1 wrote: post #46
digitalengineer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should communicate more along the way of a project? Sounds like they think you're happy doing what you're doing and then "you suddenly quit".

That is a good assessment of the situation :-)

If your communications with your teammates is poor enough that they are surprised when you quit, it's likely you're not getting good information about other aspects of the companies you denigrate. Communicate more openly, with more people to get a better understanding of what's going on.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#79

Post by michaelochurch »

allochthon wrote: post #67
jfasi wrote: post #53

I think it would be helpful to try to understand the perspective of management. Consider an extreme stereotype: the "business school guy." He went to XYZ school of management, where he learned that a business is an organization that takes in raw materials and creates something more valuable than the sum of the unfinished parts. He learned how to raise money by selling his business idea to other people who think like…

Naturally some companies are better than others. You want to find a manager who thinks of himself as your equal rather than your slaver. This is key. The first sin of management is to think they're managing people. Innovation comes from collaboration among talented equals trying to solve a real problem in the world, not from someone bestowing his unique vision upon the masses and giving them the privilege of working…

Innovation comes from collaboration among talented equals, not from someone bestowing his unique vision upon the masses and giving them the privilege of working for him.

You nailed it.

It is the latter attitude that I find the best predictor of whether there's going to be endless frustration at a company.

Agreed. The MBA entitlement is pretty easy to spot and always toxic.

It's better to compromise on technical details (Clojure vs. Python, Git vs. Hg) than on quality of people. If you find yourself making excuses for people because you want to believe, chances are your initial judgment (stay away) was the right one.

Re: Ask HN: Is it me or ...?

#80

Post by JonFish85 »

runako wrote: post #64
calinet6 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Boston, I've found loyalty and reputation are very important qualities people look for and strive for. People stick with jobs through the muck and the mud. Like we do the winters. In California, people switch jobs at the drop of a hat, and a long chain of startup gigs of 1 or 2 years each is super common and even seen as great experience. Despite being California born and raised, I much prefer Boston's work ethic…

This is a fair point. However, keep in mind that loyalty to companies is generally one-sided: most firms will not hesitate to layoff staff if business goals/economics dictate.

Speaking for myself only, any loyalty I have is to people, not to companies. I'm loyal to my boss, my co-workers, etc. These are people I want to work with in the future, and it protects my reputation. Beyond that, I have no loyalty to a company for just the reasons you mentioned.
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