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Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

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Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#71

Post by grecy »

brianpgordon wrote: post #56
grecy wrote: post #18

As Beached says [1], this is all about your attitude, and how you're choosing to live in the world. Remember, you live in the consumption capital of the world. More than ever, you're being bombarded from all sides at all times with ingenious advertising designed for the sole purpose of separating you from your money. Even your friends, family and colleagues are constantly encouraging you to spend more and more, even…

I didn't think it was possible to drive from Alaska to Argentina. How did you cross the Darién Gap? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darién_Gap

I drove the Jeep into a Shipping container and shipped it from Colon, Panama to Cartegena, Colombia.

http://theroadchoseme.com/shipping-across-the-darien-gap-pt-...

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#72

Post by eqdw »

apeace wrote: post #20

I agree that many things are probably wrong with our economy that are affecting you. But what you said doesn't add up to me. Maybe there are many things chipping away at your wealth which you haven't been accounting for? If $110k is your take-home (after taxes), you are single, and your expenses are so low, it seems you could be saving quite a lot. I know many people with similar income and expenses, and they save te…

> You say you eat out "some of the time". Most people I know say that, and they mean "at least one meal per day". This is not good for your finances! I personally increased my monthly savings by 50% once I limited my takeout to once per week, cooking the rest of my meals myself.

I feel like I eat out less often than most other people I know. I budget for restaurants and stay within my budget. I buy lunch from a cafe or restaurant daily during the week, and eat out for dinner maybe once a week. I thought I was doing pretty well until I got my credit card statement summary for 2013.

Almost $7000 on restaurants / cafes / etc.

My fifth biggest category of spending (after Rent, Aggressive Car Payments ($1000/mo), Savings, and Healthcare, in order).

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#73

Post by delecti »

I live in a quite nice 2br condo in Seattle proper. I make just slightly less than you do. I don't live frugally at all, including eating out far more than I should and plenty of discretionary shopping. I have nearly $80k in student loan debt, and I contribute liberally to retirement accounts.

Even with all of that, I've got a healthy buffer in my budget, which is currently going towards a rainy day fund, and will be redirected toward loans after that. Within 3 years I expect to have a big buffer of money that I don't think I could manage to spend.

So it sounds like the problem is either: you aren't living frugally by reasonable standards, you're leaving something big out (dental ranks on your biggest expenses?!), or you have such astronomical standards that I can't ever see you being satisfied.

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#74

Post by sliverstorm »

grecy wrote: post #32
benched wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say effectively nowhere. My lifestyle is literally identical to what it was 15 years ago when I was just starting out. It honestly feels like the goalposts keep moving. I am doing better than my parents, who were poor. I am doing worse than my grandparents, who had 8th grade educations.

> It honestly feels like the goalposts keep moving That's a really great quote and I'm happy to see the honesty. This gets to the heart of the matter. You're stuck playing "keep up with the Jones'", which by very definition you can not win. You need to define your own goalposts, then they won't move, and you can actually get there. What makes you happy? How do you want to spend your limited time on this earth? What d…

I think goalposts move by nature, even when you set them yourself. Once upon a time, my goalposts were "graduate college". Then they were, "get a good job". Then they were, "get healthy". Then, "build social circles".

These are moving goalposts. But without them, I would stagnate and achieve little.

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#75

Post by bubbleRefuge »

The problem is macroeconomic illiteracy by policy makers and the press has the economy underperforming. Taxes are to high and spending is to low and policy makers believe the government -which can issue infinite amounts of currency- can actually go bankrupt. We can model the macro economy using 3 sectors: foreign , domestic , and government with money changing hands between each sector. Money flows into the gov sector via taxation and out via spending. Money flows out of the domestic via taxation(to government) or spending on foreign and in via government spending or foreign consumption. Foreign is similar to domestic. In order for any sector in aggregate to increase its income, the other sector(s) needs to spend more than its receives from other sectors by either going into debt or spending from savings. Now, with austerity carrying the day in Washington, the private sector cannot increase its aggregate income with money flowing from the government sector. With the foreign sector structured to mostly export to America ( worlds largest consumer) income is not going to flow from there. The only thing left is for the domestic sector to borrow and spend from savings till it all blows up again. After it blows up, automatic stabilizers go into effect ( unemployment, food stamps, stimulus etc , lower taxes due to less income tax revenue) the government picks up the slack and the economy recovers proportional to net government spending. This is the cycle our economy ( if not the world's) operates on.

Income guarantee/Job guarantee, lower taxes, and infrastructure programs would serve to proactively increase income to the domestic sector. The political will -due to deficit myths- to do what is required doesn't exist.

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#77

Post by kevingadd »

grecy wrote: post #63
kevingadd wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He never said he's spending more than he's making, or that he's failing to save money. He asked about why things aren't better than they are, and whether things are that way for everyone else. Telling him to cut costs is absolutely absurd. He didn't ask for advice and he didn't say his costs are extreme.

> He never said he's spending more than he's making, or that he's failing to save money. Which has nothing to do with anything. He doesn't feel financially well-off or stable, so obviously he's not happy with his earnings to savings ratio. > He asked about why things aren't better than they are And my perspective and advice is that things are better than he thinks they are, he just needs to adjust his attitude. > Tel…

He didn't complain about his wages, and he made it clear that he is not spending excessively. His lifestyle sounds fairly frugal by modern standards. He didn't even express discontent money-wise, as in 'I wish I made more money'. He's clearly expressing a general sense of uncertainty about why the economy is how it is, and why costs are how they are.

Also, he asked about other people and you're saying he needs to adjust HIS attitude? What does that do for everyone else? Do they all just need to adjust their attitudes and accept their lots in life?

The goalposts moving doesn't mean he's setting the goalposts for himself; if anything, it implies the opposite: Someone else is setting the goalposts. If those goalposts are essential (rent, health care, food)... what is he supposed to do?

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#78

Post by cm2012 »

I make $65000 in NYC and support my wife also. We live in a 2 bedroom with a one hour commute. At this time I feel like I'm making more money than I can easily spend - and easily better off than any generation of my white american family before me. I eat out or order in 5 times a week at least.

Its hard for me to imagine scraping by at $110k, truthfully.

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#79

Post by tedsanders »

kevingadd wrote: post #37
tedsanders wrote: post #12

I'm not sure if I agree that your grandparents were under less pressure in their jobs. Overall, I think life is far easier today than it was 50 years ago, at least for most workers. It sounds like you're doing better than 99% of people. Six figure income, no huge expenses. I think the question isn't 'what's the problem with the economy' - really the question should be 'what's the problem with our expectations?' I thi…

He made it clear he's not complaining about his situation and is asking about others', in general - or more precisely, 'My situation is fairly okay, but why isn't it great on my income? Why do other people have it so much worse when it seems like they should be okay?'

Sorry, I didn't mean to accuse him of complaining. It's a perfectly fair question - if $100k income is not enough to cause happiness, then what is? I suspect that even $1 million might not be enough to cause happiness. Or even $10 million. I remember reading that income stops being a predictor of happiness after around $75k per year. Here is the first source I googled: http://www.inc.com/news/articles/2010/09/study-says-$75,000-...

Even though it seems like money reduces hardship and should increase happiness, I think as long as you aren't broke, relationships matter more than bank accounts.

What do you think?

Re: Ask HN: What is really wrong with the US economy, really?

#80

Post by sliverstorm »

kevingadd wrote: post #70
sliverstorm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your local rental costs are whack, and not representative of most of the country.

They don't need to be representative of the entire US. We know where he lives, and I know what the layout of that area is like. If his job is in Seattle he doesn't have access to many low-rent housing options and the same is true for many other people in that area.

You said:

that still pales in comparison to the cost of rent in pretty much any part of the country.

Do you actually know what the cost of rent is in the rest of the country? Not long ago I paid $450/mo to split a 3br apartment with two friends in a moderate town 1 hour from a major city. Compared to that, $200/month on connectivity is indeed quite a lot.

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