Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 118 posts

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#71

Post by ilitirit »

stcredzero wrote: post #28
jacoblyles wrote: post #12

You sound like a socially-uncalibrated egotistical person who blames his short-comings on other people. I don't really see what the problem is with "switching modes" depending on who you're talking to. Everybody does it. It's natural. You don't want to be the guy that yaps about the research project he's doing during the department social hour, and which is coincidentally the only thing he talks about before and afte…

Even though I can follow a conversation about graph theory and computational biology, I still avoid the guys at social hour that won't talk about anything else I read his question as more like: "How do I reconcile knowing spouting X and Y are egregious idiocy with socializing with people who do that?" I hear this question as more like "Doctor, it hurts when I do that, what do I do?" Answer: Don't do that!

> "How do I reconcile knowing spouting X and Y are egregious idiocy with socializing with people who do that?"

You're right, but after reading this to myself I realized that my problem could be more like "how do I deal with the frustrations that go along with managing relationships with people like this?"

I'm glad you posted that. Sometimes the difficulty in finding an answer stems from not fully understanding the problem one's self.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#72

Post by azanar »

spkthed wrote: post #25
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

People are social animals. I think as analytical people we forget this aspect of our humanity a lot. So you need to feed that social part of yourself without doing, time-consuming and mostly pointless things, like getting drunk with the guys and watching naked women dance. If you dig naked women dancing, get HBO. Or just surf the net. As a consultant, I go through phases of alone down-and-working hacking, when I'm no…

That's a pretty good response. Intelligence has nothing to do with intellectual abilities. 'Idiot savants' can do brilliant and amazing things. The smartest people in the world have trouble remembering where they put their glasses. Some people can recall every detail of every minute of their lives. People are simply different. The people that feel that they are smarter than others are often way down the line. The rea…

Intelligence has nothing to do with intellectual abilities.

I don't think this is quite accurate, but it's vague, and I can't really tell which one of these you are ascribing your examples to. In any case, intelligence and intellectual ability are multi-faceted. The ability to recall random facts may be a facet of intellectual ability, but it is tangential to intelligence. The ability to comprehend, and to be creative and synthesize new ideas, are both an aspect of intellectual ability and an aspect of intelligence. They do have something to do with one another, but in your defense, I don't think they are the same thing.

The really smart people are the ones that want to learn everything from everyone.

Agreed. But this hits on a conundrum I and a lot of geeky friends I have run into; this desire to learn everything from everybody can irritate people. It can lead to asking questions that probe for a deeper understanding, but instead elicit a scathing response demanding that I or whoever stop judging the person and what they believe. The usual reaction I have is confusion, and a wondering how asking questions can be turned into passing judgment. I can see how, if one is not careful, having this happen enough can breed a sort of smug prejudice that people who react this haven't thought about much of anything. It might be accurate for some, but assuming it for those that are not will force you to miss on many of life's lessons, as spkthed pointed out.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#73

Post by bouncingsoul »

ilitirit wrote: post #53

FWIW, after reading the 40 or so comments posted so far, here are some of my thoughts, observations and things I've learned after submitting the original post (in no particular order): 1. Either there are very few people on HN who can relate to this "problem" (when I put something in quotes, it sometimes means I am doing so for the sake of brevity ie. I understand the implications and various connotations of a term b…

I think the better description you're looking for is, "The conversations aren't as rigorous as I'd like."

But I'm confused. Do you really expect meaty, stimulating conversation when you go clubbing?

Also, you seem to be going out of your way to bring up the strip club. If you don't like it don't go.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#76

Post by aswanson »

stcredzero wrote: post #32
russell wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. You (the OP) need to be socialized. :-) There is a phenomenon I call the "Engineering Dance", where engineers and similar types go through a kind dominance ritual on first meeting, probing to see who is the most expert. This doesn't work in most social situations; most people dont like it. My SO has a masters in math and a minor in CS, but we dont talk about my work much at all. She's a painter; we talk about…

Let me say: I think that getting a girlfriend who will up and tell you when you are being an ass (later on, in private) is one of the best things you can do! "Engineering Dance" -- Guilty as charged! Brilliant name for it.

I laugh at the engineering dance anymore and mock those who try to engage me in it. Most of them are so intensely into it they don't even recognize the 'meta' joke I'm making at their expense.

Its lots of fun in interviews. Some wannabe alpha dork trying to catch me in programming language/electronics trivia is the best. In a group interview with their peers watching them, some of them getting what game I'm playing, is incredibly entertaining. Try it if you get a chance.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#77

Post by radu_floricica »

Been there. But I find I haven't felt that particular need for quite a while. I guess what helped is that in the last year I started to read a lot. I made a "never look at the price" policy when it comes to books, and used amazon to the max. I still have a backlog of 2-3 books, and usually one in the mail (also in a not very developed country, mail takes about a month).

I can only guess why it works, or why simply reading HN or articles isn't enough. Reading a book is usually harder, more immersive and, if the author is good, usually feels like a dialog.

What books exactly probably depends on yourself. I started with The Black Swan, by Nicholas Nassim Taleb, and it really opened my taste to good books. Richard Dawkins's older books, Marvin Minsky, Hernando de Soto, Jared Diamond, they all deserve to be read in full.

I also caught up with some professional books I somehow missed, like The Mythical Man-month or Peopleware, and I found a fascination for cognitive psychology with The Wisdom of Crowds and Predictably Irrational.

Yup. Thinking back I no longer wonder why. Each book was a very long conversation with a person smarter then myself. Exactly what I needed.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#78

Post by ilitirit »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #29
edw519 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great response! I didn't read this until after I made my response, but I couldn't have said it any better myself. Daniel, sometimes (not always) when I read your writing, I wonder if we were separated at birth. Sure looking forward to meeting you someday.

What can I say? I'm a karma whore. I just restate the obvious and bask in the upvoting love. ;) Seriously though, I thought long and hard about hitting the submit button. Too many times somebody comes to the group with an honest question and then we rag all over them. It's easy to be critical! As hackers we are really good at finding faults. But I tried to put myself in his shoes. After all, he came for some feedback…

> But I tried to put myself in his shoes

I really appreciate the effort, but I think you've misinterpreted some key things. Much of what you said doesn't really apply to me or the problem I'm having. I don't blame you, after all you only had my input to go on. Your feedback was valuable to me in trying to improve my communication skills though.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#79

Post by neilk »

ilitirit wrote: post #53

FWIW, after reading the 40 or so comments posted so far, here are some of my thoughts, observations and things I've learned after submitting the original post (in no particular order): 1. Either there are very few people on HN who can relate to this "problem" (when I put something in quotes, it sometimes means I am doing so for the sake of brevity ie. I understand the implications and various connotations of a term b…

I agree, I think most of the people who responded assumed you were talking about geek/normal socialization. But you're talking about something else. You want to experience a variety of things, and thus you have a variety of social groups, but in each case you feel like you're suppressing part of yourself.

I know exactly what you are talking about. I don't think this is easy to fix. I've sort of "solved" the problem by living in the Bay Area. There are a lot of hypernerds, and a lot of wild and creative people who love to party, and a significant number of people who are in the intersection.

You'll never completely escape the problem, though. One of the blessings and curses of the modern world is that you can develop interests that make you very different from your geographic peers.

The one thing that you really MUST do is stay away from people or activities you have contempt for. That's not good for you or for them. And even if you think you are hiding it well, usually they pick up on it, at least subconsciously.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#80

Post by ilitirit »

bouncingsoul wrote: post #73
ilitirit wrote: post #53

FWIW, after reading the 40 or so comments posted so far, here are some of my thoughts, observations and things I've learned after submitting the original post (in no particular order): 1. Either there are very few people on HN who can relate to this "problem" (when I put something in quotes, it sometimes means I am doing so for the sake of brevity ie. I understand the implications and various connotations of a term b…

I think the better description you're looking for is, "The conversations aren't as rigorous as I'd like." But I'm confused. Do you really expect meaty, stimulating conversation when you go clubbing? Also, you seem to be going out of your way to bring up the strip club. If you don't like it don't go.

> I think the better description you're looking for is, "The conversations aren't as rigorous as I'd like."

It's not that either, but then again it could be. We all have different ways of interpreting this. That's why the most important part of my post was trying to find people who could relate to what I'm talking about.

> But I'm confused. Do you really expect meaty, stimulating conversation when you go clubbing?

Not at all, but again this was just an example (a poor one it seems - which is what I was getting at in the post you responded to). I'll try to provide some context: Certain clubs have separate lounge areas for the purpose of relaxation, privacy, and social interaction on a more intimate level. My friends and I spend a lot of time in clubs and parties (some of them own clubs so it's nothing new to them), so when we go out we tend to spend more time in the lounge areas than at the bar or dancefloor. Occasionally a "serious" conversation will arise and that's what I'm talking about now. Now as I tried to explain, I'm not referring to one particular incident. I'm really talking about a pattern of behaviour.

> Also, you seem to be going out of your way to bring up the strip club. If you don't like it don't go.

I don't understand why you think that, or why you think the problem I have is with the strip club. I think you're exhibiting the behaviour that results from a poor incidence selection (that's what I was talking about in my previous post).

I tried to explain why I mentioned it (truth and contrast), and why I thought it was a bad example.

Of course, I could be wrong about everything here, or maybe I will just be misinterpreted/misunderstood again. But I think that trying to cover all my bases is unproductive. Case in point: How much value was there for me in explaining what I meant by "lounge in a club"?

Post reply on HN