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Ask HN: Why is home property information so public?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is home property information so public?

#71

Post by snapplebobapple »

benlivengood wrote: post #19

Why wouldn't ownership be public? See the recent uproar[0] over the semi-anonymous purchase of land near Travis AFB. This is a clear case where market inefficiency is bad; individual sellers need to know when markets are changing and a single entity is willing to pay above assumed market rates for a large contiguous region. Anyone in favor of strong markets should favor full transparency of real estate ownership and…

You are very wrong on your analysis of the travis afb land purchase. You would be correct if someone could easily get into their entire land position they need for their project all at once but it never happens that way, you are always legging into positions and run the risk of massive extortion if what you are doing is known because holdouts can capture excess payouts due to their monopoly power. Secrecy is required to get a deal done otherwise no deals get done due to landowner greed.

Re: Ask HN: Why is home property information so public?

#72

Post by wizofaus »

paleotrope wrote: post #66
wizofaus wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still remember those days quite clearly. Including the fact we virtually never got spam calls.

Local calls were free, long distance calls were not. The likelihood of spammer being in your local area was really really small. The result of being able to call millions of people from anywhere in the country for essentially free is why we have spam calling.

I think it's fair to say in general the tele-comms industry has dropped the ball on ensuring phone calls are actually being used the way they were intended to. 80% of the calls I get I don't even bother picking up any more, and at least 70% of the SMS messages I get are phishing or spam.

Re: Ask HN: Why is home property information so public?

#73

Post by gumby »

cowsandmilk wrote: post #60
gumby wrote: post #50

I just use a corporation, which is simple to set up. Some journalist could track it down, but random spammers and such have no idea. You don't have to set up the company in your home state either. You can use one of the states with more privacy (e.g WY).

> You can use one of the states with more privacy (e.g WY). Less effective than you might think because you will be required to register as a foreign corporation in the state where the property is located. That registration will expose exactly the same information as just setting up the company in that state.

If the company doesn’t “operate” in a state you don’t need to register as a foreign corporation.

For example in California, the sec of state’s website says,

    Before transacting intrastate business in California, the business
    must first qualify/register with the California Secretary of State
    online at bizfileOnline.sos.ca.gov. "Transacting intrastate business"
    is defined as entering into repeated and successive transactions
    of its business in this state, other than interstate or foreign commerce.
I.e. you can own, but not manage property through the corp.

Re: Ask HN: Why is home property information so public?

#74

Post by hgs3 »

snapplebobapple wrote: post #71
benlivengood wrote: post #19

Why wouldn't ownership be public? See the recent uproar[0] over the semi-anonymous purchase of land near Travis AFB. This is a clear case where market inefficiency is bad; individual sellers need to know when markets are changing and a single entity is willing to pay above assumed market rates for a large contiguous region. Anyone in favor of strong markets should favor full transparency of real estate ownership and…

You are very wrong on your analysis of the travis afb land purchase. You would be correct if someone could easily get into their entire land position they need for their project all at once but it never happens that way, you are always legging into positions and run the risk of massive extortion if what you are doing is known because holdouts can capture excess payouts due to their monopoly power. Secrecy is required…

> holdouts can capture excess payouts

Isn't that capitalism working as intended? If you have a desirable asset then why shouldn't you charge more for it?

Re: Ask HN: Why is home property information so public?

#75

Post by vlovich123 »

Tagbert wrote: post #63
vlovich123 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should disclosure be forced upon the vast majority of people at significant harm when you can enforce disclosure only if you own more than X properties or some % of an area?

What is the significant harm that is being forced on vast numbers by open records? I could see harm to a small number of people but for the true “vast” number, there is no impact.

The amount of spam and scam that starts heading your way when you purchase a house is insane.

Re: Ask HN: Why is home property information so public?

#76

Post by Tagbert »

vlovich123 wrote: post #75
Tagbert wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the significant harm that is being forced on vast numbers by open records? I could see harm to a small number of people but for the true “vast” number, there is no impact.

The amount of spam and scam that starts heading your way when you purchase a house is insane.

Most of that drops off after the first year and then you just get the usual volume of spam. I keep a recycling bin near the front door for fast triage. Many days it all goes into the bin.

Re: Ask HN: Why is home property information so public?

#77

Post by kyawzazaw »

beebmam wrote: post #57
j33zusjuice wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how often we allow shitty practices in one area because we already allow shittier practices in another. Why not have good policies instead of accepting bullshit all the time?

Is your argument that everyone's assets should be public information? How do you square this with people interested in blackmail, or abusive families?

What do you think about Norway's public salary record?

Re: Ask HN: Why is home property information so public?

#78

Post by [deleted] »

Axsuul wrote: post #51
cpursley wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this is available (including names of owners) from your typical government assessors web portal. Or via consolidators where the ownership, zoning, acreage, tax assessments and other data is available via an api call.

Not worth the trouble for them. They'll just end up getting thousands of takedown requests per day for information that has no value to their users.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why is home property information so public?

#79

Post by figassis »

hgs3 wrote: post #74
snapplebobapple wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are very wrong on your analysis of the travis afb land purchase. You would be correct if someone could easily get into their entire land position they need for their project all at once but it never happens that way, you are always legging into positions and run the risk of massive extortion if what you are doing is known because holdouts can capture excess payouts due to their monopoly power. Secrecy is required…

> holdouts can capture excess payouts Isn't that capitalism working as intended? If you have a desirable asset then why shouldn't you charge more for it?

It is, and so is secrecy. Capitalism does not require publishing every business dealing. Capitalism is not just competition between a buyer and a seller, it is also between buyers and between sellers. Sellers with better access to info win, but access to info is not a property of capitalism.

That being said, while capitalism should definitely be regulated, I actually don’t think land ownership needs to be public bc I don’t think it will stop feudalism. I can buy however much land I want whether you know it or not.

Re: Ask HN: Why is home property information so public?

#80

Post by figassis »

StopHammoTime wrote: post #59
bartchamdo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, why can’t land ownership be in sealed documents much like court documents can be sealed? It’s still registered as before but the documents are available to just anyone anytime without reason and they stay out of the clutches of the sleazy data dealers and such that get my address this way and send me junk and harass me in other ways. Obfuscation past this would still be possible as you said but the defaul…

Because ultimately, the reason could be made up. ANYONE could say they want to purchase the property and make an enquiry anyway. People can always lie or come up with fantastical stories. The problem is the baby is being thrown out with the bath water. The solution is good, the modern pillaging of the data is not.

The government should have no responsibility in facilitating land deals. If you want to buy land, buy it from the markets, and if the owner has not listed it, then likely they don’t want to sell it. And if you really want to buy it and think maybe if I just show them how much I’m willing to pay for it they’d sell, but they still haven’t listed it and you don’t know anyone that knows the owner, either tough luck or hire a private investigator.

The government should only be involved in the ownership transfer process after a sale has been made.

If you go to the government and ask about a piece of land, they should only be able to tell you if it’s owner by someone or by the state itself. If the latter, then you can buy it from them.

Everything else seems like it exists due to lobbying.

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