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Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

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Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#71

Post by Zeik »

satisfice wrote: post #66
lostlogin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Burnout comes from reward != work/effort put in over a long period of time. I don’t agree. You can be well paid and well rewarded and burnt out. People need holiday, breaks and time to relax. If you are busy and stressed for a long period, hobbies don’t get time, life admin doesn’t get done and exhaustion comes to dominates weekends and evenings.

Think about “reward” more broadly. When it comes to burnout, your body doesn’t care about money. Money is not a reward in and of itself, but rather it’s your feeling about money that matters. When you experience burnout, it’s not due to muscle fatigue or lack of sleep. Burnout happens when you aren’t getting something that you need psychologically, over a long period of time. Then the psychological deficit begins to…

I am 10 years younger than you and had my share of burnouts. I think you have a good tip there: stop doing stuff you don’t enjoy. But I would add another suggestion: do stuff you do enjoy. It’s really important. Burnout leads to life without joy. Joy prevents burnouts as it helps to keep balance between work life and life outside work.

Also strangely enough, for me starting freelancing has helped a lot. I have a feeling that if I get “ stop, I don’t like this!” thoughts, I can just leave the project. I have never done it yet but that is a possibility and I have saved some money so that it is a true alternative. Also now that I am not employed at some startup/big company anymore, I don’t need to think career or continue at work place I don’t enjoy because of stocks/options. Moneywise not a best solution but it has made my life better and I don’t have burnouts anymore.

Most important thing for me is my business, and most important thing for my business is my happiness and well-being because without me my business doesn’t survive.

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#72

Post by muzani »

unforeseen9991 wrote: post #57
lostlogin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Burnout comes from reward != work/effort put in over a long period of time. I don’t agree. You can be well paid and well rewarded and burnt out. People need holiday, breaks and time to relax. If you are busy and stressed for a long period, hobbies don’t get time, life admin doesn’t get done and exhaustion comes to dominates weekends and evenings.

Yeah, by that definition people going to school or learning a new career that can take years of effort would all be in perpetual burnout. I think that's way too simplistic of a definition of what causes burnout.

There's less burnout in school because there's a goal. You put in effort, you get an A. You get enough A's you get a good job.

Some put in effort but don't get an A. That can cause burnout.

Some put in effort, get A's, but don't get the dream job. That's a massive source of burnout and depression.

It can stretch on further too. Some land the dream job but don't land the dream home. Another source of grief.

But for the most part, the grading system can also shield you from burnout because it feeds you the results you expect to get from the effort.

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#73

Post by mejutoco »

shaftway wrote: post #49
JohnFen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have had a number of failures at all phases of projects. I have a life philosophy about this: failure is the path to success (I've never learned anything by being right). It can be hard to maintain the mindset, but it's actually true -- we learn from our mistakes, so nothing is a failure as long as a lesson was derived from it. If you can maintain that mindset, it takes a lot of the stress out of things!

In general I agree and I've preached the same. But the moment when you're holding the result of a month of weekends in your hands and you have to drop it in the trash can is tough.

I can suggest pottery.In that case you are dropping it[1] every five minutes, so you get used to it :)

[1] recyclable as long as it is not fired.

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#74

Post by JohnFen »

lostlogin wrote: post #45
qazxcvbnmlp wrote: post #39

Burnout comes from reward != work/effort put in over a long period of time. Building your own thing can be very conducive to burnout b/c most of the time you’re not really getting a lot of positive ideas. Everyone likes to say that vacation is the solution to burnout, and it can be, but it’s not the end all be all. Your brain needs to feel contentment at the end of a typical day. Contentment indicates you’re filling…

> Burnout comes from reward != work/effort put in over a long period of time. I don’t agree. You can be well paid and well rewarded and burnt out. People need holiday, breaks and time to relax. If you are busy and stressed for a long period, hobbies don’t get time, life admin doesn’t get done and exhaustion comes to dominates weekends and evenings.

I agree. I've known lots of devs who've suffered burnout over the decades (although it's far more common now than it used to be). I did myself, as well.

All of those devs were well-compensated. I don't see even a hint that the level of compensation enters into it in my small, not-statistically-significant sampling.

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#75

Post by JohnFen »

jsunderland323 wrote: post #64
JohnFen wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That in no way resembles his work experience. He did tell me a few interesting things, though. He was really surprised how many software devs he met who were driving the big rigs. It seems to be a thing. Another was how many skills overlap the two fields. Driving the big rig is an exercise in resource management and planning, so you can do things like ensure that by the time you need more fuel, you're in a place wher…

Sorry, I made my comment in jest. I guess it didn’t land well. Yeah, I can see the resource planning overlaps. I’m glad it worked out for your friend!

Ah, that went right over my head.

There is one stereotype that he confirmed, though: it's common for drivers to keep two sets of driving logs, one real and one doctored, in order to be able to drive longer at a time than is legally allowed without getting caught.

This was quite a number of years ago, though. It's entirely possible that GPS is used to mitigate this these days. I don't know.

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#77

Post by pillefitz »

amelius wrote: post #31

Burnout advice: try to sleep 10+ hours a night for some time.

That's not something most adults can simply do. I often wake up after 7-7.5 hrs and manage to sleep for slightly longer only when severely exhausted or sleep deprived. The rare nights I sleep longer, I interestingly feel more energetic the next day

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#78

Post by lakotasapa »

I'm in Silicon Valley and done that been there. I found the "burnt out" feeling was mostly lack of motivation and inspiration. I realize they're in abundance but the big differentiator was someone local, being f2f sounding board. Although I met a few via meetup.com none inspired me enough to continue my meetup as it felt mostly one way. It sure be nice to find someone inspired to do more. If you're in the S.Bay, ping me. I'm be fullstack with my career being in prog mgmt. I'm on my way to writing up func spec then out src the coding work just so I can get "started."

[EDITED] Didn't want to write deep philosophical statement but having gone through group therapy for burnout. Found for me that it equates to depression. As many have said, self care _is_ your #1 priority. Since I love creating, especially apps/tools I personally need. I need to do it to get myself out of a rut and also do something in love while trying to support my family.

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#79

Post by badpun »

qazxcvbnmlp wrote: post #39

Burnout comes from reward != work/effort put in over a long period of time. Building your own thing can be very conducive to burnout b/c most of the time you’re not really getting a lot of positive ideas. Everyone likes to say that vacation is the solution to burnout, and it can be, but it’s not the end all be all. Your brain needs to feel contentment at the end of a typical day. Contentment indicates you’re filling…

> Building your own thing can be very conducive to burnout b/c most of the time you’re not really getting a lot of positive ideas.

That's a very good observation. Once in my late twenties, I took two years off to pursue an idea which didn't pan out in the end. Luckily, I ended up with minimal debt only, and was able to quickly return to working for others afterwards. But, since that experience, my motivation levels for anything I'm doing work-wise have never been the same. BTW, perhaps they were just too high before (the naivety of youth) and are not at a proper level.

Re: Ask HN: Any freelancers here? I need burnout advice

#80

Post by badpun »

23B1 wrote: post #9

When I was burned out I dedicated myself to learning something completely outside of my current context. I plan on doing this regularly now, maybe every 2-3 years. On my docket is: - Woodworking - Cooking - especially baking, since it can be extremely challenging to create the 'perfect' baguette or croissant - Gardening - Writing a novel etc. Best solution for burnout IMO is to completely refresh your mind with somet…

Writing a novel is far from low-stress, unless you don't mind writing absolute garbage. The term "tortured artist" exists for a reason.
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