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Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

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Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#71
post #24
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful dealing with federal agents and federal agencies. They can get you for "lying to federal agents". Always have a lawyer next to you, so that this lawyer can take notes, thereby preventing you from being charged under "trumped up charges". I don't know why you are exploring this area, unless you want to spend some time in some federal penitentiary.

Good advice. I know there have been situations where federal agencies have turned out to be "the bad guys", but I guess I'm optimistic that they are generally smart, well intentioned, and interested in some of the same outcomes that I'm talking about. As to why I'm exploring this, it's just a topic I've been thinking about lately. My daughter is starting college in the fall and they've had a lot of deaths over the la…

> interested in some of the same outcomes

You're being very optimistic there. For a lot of people "higher up", not just in law enforcement, extra deaths as a side effect of drug-handling is a feature, not a bug.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#72
If it's really great you should try it on yourself first! Be the change in the world /s

You'd be the first person in the world to consume a novel drug, this should give you enough pleasure (plus of course the pleasure from the drug) to completely abandon the idea of making money doing business with cartels, hell it could completely turn you off to the idea of money at all, if not to continue producing and consuming the drug.

It's a choice, you mentioned better operating margins so I guess your idea makes the drug cheaper to make? This gives you a slower burn rate and thus a longer runway.

I have a feeling that you won't go through with this idea, but in the future remember that any idea which require you to speak with the bosses of an existing organization to completely overhaul their production system should be discarded because it's not actionable and just a waste of time. This idea adds the illegal bit which is of course a whole other story.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#73
post #61
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess we'll find out :)

What is the benefit for you personally to do this? Do you see a potential business opportunity or something?

I've touched on this in a few other replies, but I'll restate here:

I'm not interested in making money from this.

It would feel really rewarding if I could (directly or indirectly) save someone's life or prevent some act of senseless violence. Even if there's only a small chance of achieving one of those outcomes, don't we have a moral obligation to pursue something like that?

Years ago, one of my wife's friends was having major problems with her husband. The friend had been texting my wife and mentioned that there was some kind of confrontation. And then the friend just stopped responding to texts. My wife was kind of freaking out after a little while, so we went over to the friend's house (the husband was also there) and sat out there trying to figure out what to do. We had no reason to believe the husband was violent, but it's hard to know how someone will react in a tense/emotional situation. We weren't sure if it made sense to call the police, because we didn't know if the friend was actually in any danger. After weighing the options, we decided to call the police non-emergency line and ask if someone could check on the friend. They transferred us to 911, and we told the dispatcher the situation. They said they would send an officer to check. At this point, we decided to knock on the door. The husband answered, clearly unhappy we were there. We said we just wanted to make sure the friend was ok. He told us to get off his property or he would call the police. We agreed to leave but told him we had already called the police. My wife got a text shortly after that from the friend saying that she was ok, but thanking us for checking on her. We waited for the police to arrive (about 10 minutes later) and we drove home.

Long story, but I've thought about that night a lot. I think we did the right thing. If we had done nothing, and the friend been hurt somehow, I would have felt horrible knowing that I might have been able to prevent it and didn't.

I feel this is a similar situation, but on a much bigger scale. Honestly, until yesterday, I had filed the fentanyl epidemic away in my brain in the large folder labeled "tragic things in the world that you can't do anything about". But hearing the campus police chief talking about student deaths related to fentanyl-laced pot at my daughter's college orientation made me start thinking about it again. I'm very cognizant of how cringy it is for tech people to think they can save the world with tech, but I tried to consider the economic, social and political factors involved and let myself be curious about out-of-the-box solutions. And I came up with something.

PS. Oh, and I think it would be a fun story to tell at parties.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#74
post #35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it turns out there is no legal way to move ahead with my idea, No, there is no legal way to "move ahead" with abetting drug cartels.

I always wonder where's the legal boundary of abetting. If I sell a cartel member a pack of chewing gum at a gas station, I'm probably not abetting. But what if I'm a book store owner, I know the customer is a chemist for the cartel, and I sell him a chemistry book? Is that criminal? Why/why not?

The Law is never perfect. Who the judge is, who the jury is, how they woke up on a given day, etc etc, can often be the difference between innocence and guilt, in the eyes of the system.

Book owner "looks shifty", smokes pot recreationally, is known by prostitutes? Guilty. Book owner wears tweed, went to Harvard, is well-liked in book-clubs? Innocent.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#75
post #8

I assume the cartel leaders are essentially profit motivated Not an expert on this but my understanding is that since El Chapo Joaquín Guzmán was taken down his cartel splintered and they are no longer operating like a business not that it would have helped your goal here . This would probably be an extra-risky riskier and insane time to try to meet with them. If you are dead set on doing this I would guess that the…

You make several good points. One option I had considered was somehow working my way up the chain, but hadn't thought about local law enforcement. Thanks!

I still think it's a monumentally bad idea. There are no rational people on any side of that hot mess. To the point of others in this thread, if your intent could be perceived as aiding and abetting the cartels then the authorities would put you away unlike the cartel of whom they can not touch most of the time but I am not a lawyer and not an expert in these matters. I can only hope you talk to that Sheriff. I think they would help you see reason and are much less likely to drag you into the legal system than the other agents.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#76
post #63
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that federal agents are more dangerous than drug cartels. I'm saying that you're going to end up being arrested before you get the chance to find out.

I see your point. That is certainly a possibility. Although it would be highly inconvenient to be arrested or get in trouble with the feds, it would make for an interesting story at parties. That's always been something I've struggled with. So... silver lining? A lot of historical figures I respect have been arrested for standing by their convictions. So I would be in good company. It also could turn into a good oppo…

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Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#78
post #73
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the benefit for you personally to do this? Do you see a potential business opportunity or something?

I've touched on this in a few other replies, but I'll restate here: I'm not interested in making money from this. It would feel really rewarding if I could (directly or indirectly) save someone's life or prevent some act of senseless violence. Even if there's only a small chance of achieving one of those outcomes, don't we have a moral obligation to pursue something like that? Years ago, one of my wife's friends was…

> I'm not interested in making money from this.

Sure, but is there some component of this at all through which you might gain something?

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#79
post #63
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that federal agents are more dangerous than drug cartels. I'm saying that you're going to end up being arrested before you get the chance to find out.

I see your point. That is certainly a possibility. Although it would be highly inconvenient to be arrested or get in trouble with the feds, it would make for an interesting story at parties. That's always been something I've struggled with. So... silver lining? A lot of historical figures I respect have been arrested for standing by their convictions. So I would be in good company. It also could turn into a good oppo…

It'll be a fun story at parties after you serve up to 4 years in federal prison for each time you use a communication device in this venture (21 USC § 843 b) and then get to spend however many years in state prisons for criminal facilitation.

Just keep in mind there's no parole for Federal crimes.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#80
There was an article about disappearing engineers - the ones working on communications.

Cartels figured they need somebody to setup sophisticated communication systems - do you think they asked a company for help ? They just kidnapped the people they found working on communications towers, made them do the job, then buried them.

Sorry but your idea of trying to work with a cartel is beyond stupid. With a lot of luck, you could end up working for them. As a slave.

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