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Ask HN: How can a junior dev maximize their income?

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Re: Ask HN: How can a junior dev maximize their income?

#71
I got into programming because I loved programming. Because I loved it I also knew which of the items in that list interested me. You're going to be doing this every day for 8+ hours a day - you better have some idea if what is interesting to you.

It sounds like you are really asking if there is a "get rick quick" scheme available in tech - and the answer is no.

I can't imagine doing it just for the money. If you aren't excited about programming at the start you'll have 10 years of pure hell.

All that said, since you can "get into faang" - just pick the faang job available to you with the highest salary ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. You won't be independently wealthy after 10 years, but you'll be quite comfortable.

Re: Ask HN: How can a junior dev maximize their income?

#72
If they can get into a FAANG, I think they're already maximizing their income compared to the rest of the industry (not everyone in Tech works at FAANG). I would focus on broadening my knowledge of as many things as I find interesting and not try to specialize for a few years because platforms and languages are always going to change, but there are a lot of core things that everyone needs to know:

  - HTTP/TCP/UDP and basic networking
  - Client/Server architectures
  - Machine learning basics
  - Cloud Computing basics
Every platform has a different flavor of these things, but if you understand the basics a lot of the knowledge carries over (or you at least can see why one framework picked a particular trade-off over another)

Also, I'd learn a little bit about Product, and what Product Managers do. Lenny's Podcast is amazing for this. Thinking about Product and how it leverages Engineering is really important. Customers don't give a shit about your backend architecture, they just want a good experience. I think that helps keep you from going down too many technical rabit-holes

Re: Ask HN: How can a junior dev maximize their income?

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Optimizing for “ramping” seems incredibly shortsighted. Does seeing things through, pushing through the hard bits, the bits that only come up after a few years when your pet project starts spouting fire or some major restructuring happens and not to mention loyalty doesn’t mean anything anymore?

If the company was giving pensions and compensating people like loyalty mattered then we could have that conversation but there is no loyalty toward employees from companies. I see loyalty to any company as shortsighted from the employee's point of view.

There’s the issue of building virtue and good character, which I suspect are ancient and long obsoleted concepts.

This pragmatism is understandable, but I don’t think it’s a nice way to live. Of course to each its own.

Re: Ask HN: How can a junior dev maximize their income?

#74
post #63
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent my 20s following this advice, but now in my 30s I am starting to question it. When I look up the org chart, the people higher up have been at the company 5+ years. Moving into the higher roles requires the right opportunity, which often takes time to find. Those "right opportunities" are rarely given to people new to the company and are often used to retain existing high performers. Certainly if you're stuck…

Interesting in that I kind of did the opposite. I stayed at one company for a long time, and then moved more around later in my career. Perhaps there is an argument for getting to the "staff" level quickly, and then hop around more as it's harder to advance past that level?

In my own network and in my current role, I see people that should have left years ago, but they never got the hint that their careers stalled. I would have a direct conversation with my manager to see where the growth is and then verify that with action (Are they promoting other people instead of me? If yes, leave.).

As far as reaching staff and then jumping ship, I have no idea. I started my career 10 years ago and at the time, I thought "senior" was the highest option, but then staff role got created.

I wonder if in 10+ years, the IC ladder will get taller, so people don't feel "trapped" at staff level.

Re: Ask HN: How can a junior dev maximize their income?

#76
post #7

I know this question is situated around the tech, but the real answer is to leave every couple of years. There is always more money to be made, and the more experience you have the easier it is to get it. I'm not saying this is what somebody should do, but if you're only indexing for income, then it's the only answer IMO.

That is the only correct answer.

Re: Ask HN: How can a junior dev maximize their income?

#77
post #74
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting in that I kind of did the opposite. I stayed at one company for a long time, and then moved more around later in my career. Perhaps there is an argument for getting to the "staff" level quickly, and then hop around more as it's harder to advance past that level?

In my own network and in my current role, I see people that should have left years ago, but they never got the hint that their careers stalled. I would have a direct conversation with my manager to see where the growth is and then verify that with action (Are they promoting other people instead of me? If yes, leave.). As far as reaching staff and then jumping ship, I have no idea. I started my career 10 years ago and…

Title inflation is a thing even with ladders. I know of some non-tech industries where there are 15 levels to climb and at level 7 you were considered a director already.

Re: Ask HN: How can a junior dev maximize their income?

#78
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a point. People who move around too much will not get the job if there's a comparable candidate that has stayed around longer at previous jobs.

I’ve been on interviewing panels before. It is extremely rare to have two “comparable” candidates for any one position. Everyone has different pros and cons. Tenure at past positions was always very low on the list of qualifiers we evaluated.

Is there a reason why it was low on the list? What qualifiers did you placed more on? Could you explain more about the thought process?

Re: Ask HN: How can a junior dev maximize their income?

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the company was giving pensions and compensating people like loyalty mattered then we could have that conversation but there is no loyalty toward employees from companies. I see loyalty to any company as shortsighted from the employee's point of view.

There’s the issue of building virtue and good character, which I suspect are ancient and long obsoleted concepts. This pragmatism is understandable, but I don’t think it’s a nice way to live. Of course to each its own.

You can build virtue and good character and still manage your career in a way that puts yourself and your family first. I'm not buying that the only way to build character is to work for below market rate so someone else can make money and then forget you when it's not convenient any longer.

Asymmetric loyalty is a dead end. Deriving your virtue and character from your job is also a fools errand and a myth that is perpetuated by anti-labor capitalists to line their pockets before they absolve themselves of equal social responsibility.

Build character and exercise virtue by making your community and family richer.

Re: Ask HN: How can a junior dev maximize their income?

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been on interviewing panels before. It is extremely rare to have two “comparable” candidates for any one position. Everyone has different pros and cons. Tenure at past positions was always very low on the list of qualifiers we evaluated.

Is there a reason why it was low on the list? What qualifiers did you placed more on? Could you explain more about the thought process?

I’ve also done a decent amount of interviewing, and have a similar (but slightly different) experience to the GP.

We considered someone’s career history a problem when they had several jobs of ~a year or less. Or someone interviewing for a senior position with 4-5 years of experience across 5 companies, for example. If those were the case, we were much more likely to reject them.

If someone (hypothetical) had 10 years experience, with a few that lasted 1-2 years, one that was only a few months, and maybe one that was 4-5ish years, then that was no problem at all. We wanted to be sure they had seen the consequences of their prior decisions, if they were coming into a high-mid or senior role.

When we did hiring, we wouldn’t be comparing candidates 1-to-1 like “Well A had this, but B was good at this, which one should we pick?” …instead, we would just say “ok we’re in hiring mode, keep hiring everyone who is good until we have enough for xyz goal”. So it wouldn’t be that CandidateA is better than CandidateB, but rather if they both met the standards, then they’d get hired.

Some of the qualifiers that mattered more than tenure for us were:

* are they capable of explaining technical problems and communicating

* do they understand algorithms at enough of a level that they won’t cause major performance issues

* are they polite and friendly, how do they respond to feedback

* can they build an architecture which handles expanding requirements

* how eager are they to learn and work on our tech stack + business domain

I haven’t interviewed juniors really, so I can’t speak much to that. But when we’ve hired someone less experienced, it would be the same requirements as above just with a lot more leeway on tech, and more emphasis on “eagerness to learn” + “receptive to feedback”

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