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Ask HN: Stripe holding funds for 120 days for no reason

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Re: Ask HN: Stripe holding funds for 120 days for no reason

#71

Post by johnhaddock »

enraged_camel wrote: post #66
thot_experiment wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if, get this, instead of all this vague shit about doing better you just had a support team you could talk to without blowing up on twitter/hn? If I wanted to charge people on the internet right now I would go with Authorize, even though I've used Stripe in the past and had good experiences. Now my understanding is that I pay for the convenience of the better API etc. with the inconvenience of being unable to ta…

My understanding is that in most cases of fraud, what customers are looking for (clear explanations for why the account was suspended, funds are being held, etc.) will simply not be possible, either due to legality, or that the company will intentionally withhold information so that the fraudsters won't figure out how to work around the protections. Obviously this hurts legitimate customers who get tripped up by the…

It's true that we can't be more specific about users in HN posts. But we do hear the legitimate feedback about getting more specific/helpful in sharing status with users where we've asked for more info from them (or when they are asking for more info/help from us). I don't think we've found the right balance in either case yet -- working on it.

Re: Ask HN: Stripe holding funds for 120 days for no reason

#72

Post by aliqot »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #42

Contact your state’s money transmitter regulator [1]. If you suspect bad faith, looping in FinCEN may not be a bad idea [2]. [1] https://www.mtraweb.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Contact-l... [2] https://www.fincen.gov/contact

Given how buddy-buddy payment industry is, I'd advise against this unless a lawyer is willing to take it pro-bono on the basis that your case is so strong it'd be a layup.

Re: Ask HN: Stripe holding funds for 120 days for no reason

#73

Post by gruez »

benjaminwootton wrote: post #60
thot_experiment wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if, get this, instead of all this vague shit about doing better you just had a support team you could talk to without blowing up on twitter/hn? If I wanted to charge people on the internet right now I would go with Authorize, even though I've used Stripe in the past and had good experiences. Now my understanding is that I pay for the convenience of the better API etc. with the inconvenience of being unable to ta…

This is all I want from any service that I buy from. Good, responsive support without scripted responses and black hole email addresses. Surely that is even more important with a business critical payment provider? I’ll forgive a lot if that is in place.

> This is all I want from any service that I buy from. Good, responsive support without scripted responses and black hole email addresses.

Many commenters in this thread are saying OP's account was frozen because of suspected fraud/money laundering. If that's true, what would "responsive support without scripted responses and black hole email addresses" entail?

Re: Ask HN: Stripe holding funds for 120 days for no reason

#74

Post by timmaxw »

maxbond wrote: post #58
e28eta wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a law of nature, but there are laws of man against “Tipping-off” [1]. Add in the fact there are people trying very hard all the time to defraud the payment processor. So now you can directly measure false negatives in fraud detection, but your false positive rate is harder to figure out. And whatever mechanism you use to recover from false positives can be abused by true fraudsters. So it becomes a hard problem -…

You're suggesting this likely happens because the payment processor has reported their suspicions to a regulator who isn't getting back to them in a timely manner, and so they can't release the funds until they do? I'm a bit confused because it seems to me that the tip off is when they won't disburse your funds. ETA: Maybe it's more that they can't give you any information because they can't allow adversaries to diff…

If a payment processor suspects a business is laundering money, they can hold the funds, but it's illegal for the payment processor to tell the business that they suspect money laundering. So they end up saying something like "we're holding your funds for vague unspecified reasons".

(Disclaimer: Used to work at Stripe, but not on this particular area. Not an expert on either the law or Stripe's policies.)

Re: Ask HN: Stripe holding funds for 120 days for no reason

#75

Post by aliqot »

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #68

This is pretty standard, if a card processor thinks there is high probability of chargebacks then they will hold your funds for 3-4 months to make sure they can cover those chargebacks. After the deadline for cardholders to make disputes passes then they release the funds. It might not be anything you did personally, it might be based on location or business type. Talking to them is probably the best course of action…

This person's giving solid advice. In traditional payment networks, like swipers in a retail location, 30-90 days is standard, this varies by risk profile and SIC code, like comparing a deli to an ATM in an adult club. There's a lot of settlement and reconciliation and things that happen in the background.

Re: Ask HN: Stripe holding funds for 120 days for no reason

#76

Post by CaptJax »

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #68

This is pretty standard, if a card processor thinks there is high probability of chargebacks then they will hold your funds for 3-4 months to make sure they can cover those chargebacks. After the deadline for cardholders to make disputes passes then they release the funds. It might not be anything you did personally, it might be based on location or business type. Talking to them is probably the best course of action…

Square started doing that with my business. Without warning or cause, they began withholding 20-percent of all incoming transactions in case of chargebacks. Makes me wonder if a regulatory change has occurred.

Re: Ask HN: Stripe holding funds for 120 days for no reason

#77

Post by [deleted] »

johnhaddock wrote: post #67
thewebcount wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To maybe add some constructive criticism to this thread, you say that you want to make sure that people have fewer bad experiences with Stripe. There is a common thread to each of these posts which neither you nor any of the other Stripe employees who post here ever seem to address. Namely, that it’s impossible to reach a human being who a) listens to what the actual problem is and b) can actually take any meaningful…

Agree - there's multiple problems to solve (a) make incorrect actions exceedingly rare (b) correct them quickly (c) give people who reach out about them substantive help. Have major initiatives underway to improve on all 3. We're furthest along on (a), more to share soon. Interaction of (b)(c) is particularly complex, as we find the right way to make high-stakes decisions while being responsive to people asking for h…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Stripe holding funds for 120 days for no reason

#78

Post by ShivShankaran »

Zebfross wrote: post #23

We switched to Authorize.net because the business risk at Stripe was just too high. The api isn't near as good, but it works, and we don't worry about random account freezes.

Is it cheaper than stripe ? And won't they suspend you for any reason?

I have been on stripe for years but stories like this makes me panic

Re: Ask HN: Stripe holding funds for 120 days for no reason

#79

Post by throwawayacc2 »

johnhaddock wrote: post #59
zomglings wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

We’ve been investigating this case for the past 24 hours, and it's not straightforward. I can’t share more publicly here, but we’re in touch directly with OP.

OP can you lay out your version of the events please? And also give written permission to the Stripe guy to lay out his version? I want to see how the two compare. Feel like watching some drama this evening.
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