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Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

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Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#71
post #6

Got a relevant question myself: What bothers me the most for solo founders with GDPR is that you can't analyse individual user journeys without some kind of consent. I don't care who you are, but I care how you use my product so I can improve it. Aggregated / backend analytics will give me only the most basic insights. Am I right in that? Is it possible to work around that? I don't track to sell or analyse personal d…

A lot of the GDPR tracking stuff is only applicable for anonymous users. Once someone creates an account and accepts the ToS, it's a different relationship. Tracking is fine, GDPR becomes more concerned with data safety. This is why freemium products are so important. In this future, your marketing should be a sledgehammer with one focus - get people to create accounts. Once people have accounts, then you can do all…

Sorry but I don't see how ToS can override GDPR?

GDPR suggests that you can't make non-essential data processing a requirement for using the service, so it seems to me that ToS that force you to accept tracking would still not be compliant.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#72
post #47
post #5

The idea behind/the backbone of the GDPR is: Whenever you want to process personal information, you'll need the consent of your users and protect the data accordingly. It's easy as that. You can absolutely use ANY tool or service you want (really), but if it processes personal information (and even IPs count as that) you'll need to ask for consent and inform the user what data is processed and where and how it is pro…

The ambition is cool, but the reality of a sweeping sector-wide law with extraterritoriality is it just makes the lawyers rich. No sane business is running a Matomo instance with high privacy settings and hoping for the best.

The objective of the law is to put an end to the current "Wild West" attitude when it comes to data privacy, and the only reason it hasn't (yet?) had the desired effects is because enforcement is significantly lacking, so you're seeing the downsides without significant upsides.

There is tremendous value in having the GDPR enforced properly though. Imagine a world where you can actually talk to someone or buy something or without Google or Facebook knowing about it, webpages no longer embedding dozens of third-party trackers, "data brokers" going out of business, etc.

IMO it's actually quite insane that we let the situation deteriorate so badly that something like the GDPR was needed, both from a "do the right thing" perspective (smearing your PII over tons of third-parties with dubious or outright malicious business models is a sign of disrespect for your users, not to mention security liability) as well as legal perspective (some countries already had existing legislation around electronic data processing that predates the GDPR).

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#73

Someone should build GDPR-compliance-as-a-service.

There are already a few services. OneTrust, Ketch, a few more as well.

None of those give you compliance?

A consent popup that makes it harder to decline than to accept is not compliant, nor one that merely cares about cookies/local storage while still loading third-party scripts and leaking your IP address & browser fingerprint.

A compliant consent flow would require explicit consent before loading any non-essential third-party scripts, but I'm not aware of any mainstream solution that does this, primarily because an actually compliant solution would put certain employees and maybe even entire companies out of business, thus pseudo-compliance is preferred over actual compliance.

Furthermore, even if you do actually handle tracking consent properly, it is only part of your GDPR compliance approach. It does't matter if your website tracking is compliant if your backend then uses the data without appropriate legal basis.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need an EU DPO, just an EU representative, according to my reading of it. (At least not under a certain size, which is what I was looking at.) They’re basically a glorified post office box. I used DataRep, which was very reasonably priced.

And what size is that? Do you have a source?

Read the text of the GDPR directly. It’s surprisingly readable, and there’s several well-organized hypertext versions online.

It’s been several years since I read the GDPR, but my recollection is that companies smaller than 150 people, who don’t process “sensitive” data (sexual orientation, etc.) have lighter requirements. Again, read the GDPR itself for details.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European here who honestly agrees with what you're saying but most likely not for the reason you expect. The GDPR may be a bit of a blunt axe but it surely has done a good job of smoking the data parasites out of the woodwork. If whatever business you were to start can not survive without tracking its users without their consent and without giving them the possibility to retract that consent the problem lies with you…

I'm not going to disagree with that and I'm not opposed to the privacy controls in GDPR. The context here in a solo dev who is dealing with GDPR. When you're trying to get a business off the ground, iterating fast and trying to build a business that can survive to day 2, every single bit of busy work should be avoided. Why reduce your chances of success by chasing a market that takes more work than other markets? The…

> Why reduce your chances of success by chasing a market that takes more work than other markets

That is the same excuse which was - and in IoT-land still is - used to delay thinking about security because it could be bolted on later. The answer to this question is "because if your business ends up successful you will eventually have to implement this functionality so you have to make sure your architecture allows for it". If your "fast iterations" lead to personally identifiable information being scattered all over your system in such a way that removing this for any given user is an onerous task you made the same mistake as those developers of yore - and of now in IoT-land - who assumed everyone who had a 'net connection could be trusted. That was a costly mistake for which we're still paying off the debt.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#76
post #23

I looked into this issue over the last weeks and made a list of other solo founders and how they handle it. You can find many, many of them when you search Twitter for "buildinpublic". The sad truth is that most successful solo founders these days: 1) Make it very hard to figure out where the service they provide is located. 2) When you find out, it is usually registered in a country outside of the EU. Crunchbase oft…

If you're servicing the EU you need to take the GDPR into account, so I'm not sure I understand what benefit it gives you to be outside the EU unless you have a service that can refuse to serve an economically rich area of the world?

That is the theory, but not how the web works in reality.

SaaS projects usually service the whole world. I have not found a single solo founder who does that in a way that is compatible with the GDPR.

If the EU would try to enforce the GDPR worldwide, it would mean the EU gets cut off from 99% of the internet. Then Europeans can only use giants like Google and Facebook. Because smaller players can not duplicate all of their infrastructure using tools based in the EU.

It won't happen. It would be as if the EU sanctions itself into stone age. Imagine the physical industry would be told that it can only use parts made in the EU from now on.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#77
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is recommended, not mandatory. You are a single person company. Do you think every family run corner shop or plumber or painter in the EU has hired a DPO? No.

I have seen nothing that says it is recommended and not mandatory- do you have a source?

Your own link did, but now the page returns a 404 error.

However, see https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protectio...

> Under the UK GDPR, you must appoint a DPO if:

> - you are a public authority or body (except for courts acting in their judicial capacity);

> - your core activities require large scale, regular and systematic monitoring of individuals (for example, online behaviour tracking); or

> - your core activities consist of large scale processing of special categories of data or data relating to criminal convictions and offences.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#78
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen nothing that says it is recommended and not mandatory- do you have a source?

Your own link did, but now the page returns a 404 error. However, see https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protectio... > Under the UK GDPR, you must appoint a DPO if: > - you are a public authority or body (except for courts acting in their judicial capacity); > - your core activities require large scale, regular and systematic monitoring of individuals (for example, online behaviour tracking); or > -…

It is saying that I MAY not have to appoint a DPO, depending on various criteria... but then when you go to look at what that criteria is, it merely tells you:

--- What does ‘regular and systematic monitoring of data subjects on a large scale’ mean?

There are two key elements to this condition requiring you to appoint a DPO. Although the UK GDPR does not define ‘regular and systematic monitoring’ or ‘large scale’, the Article 29 Working Party (WP29) provided some guidance on these terms in its guidelines on DPOs. WP29 has been replaced by the European Data Protection Board (EDPB) which has endorsed these guidelines. Although these guidelines relate to the EU version of the GDPR, they are also a useful resource for understanding the requirements of the UK GDPR.

‘Regular and systematic’ monitoring of data subjects includes all forms of tracking and profiling, both online and offline. An example of this is for the purposes of behavioural advertising.

When determining if processing is on a large scale, the guidelines say you should take the following factors into consideration:

    the numbers of data subjects concerned;
    the volume of personal data being processed;
    the range of different data items being processed;
    the geographical extent of the activity; and
    the duration or permanence of the processing activity.
---

So neither does this page, nor the law (according to this page itself) or any other guidance I have found, define what "a large scale" means. It gives some really squishy criteria, and then leaves it up to the DPA to fine whoever they want to, because they refuse to define anything in concrete terms. No one except commenters on Hacker News can possibly know whether or not they are in compliance.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#79
post #11

The issue with google fonts is the CDN tracking I believe, not the license or the font itself. If you need a google (or other) fonts, do self hosting. Simplest way is to build them into your site as a dependency... npm @fontsource for individual fonts is great for this [0] This is also better in terms of HTTPS overhead, and the process of self hosting is good for font file weight awareness due to the affect on your b…

Indeed, the issue with Google Fonts (and Google Analytics) is how they track users. You need explicit consent for your visitors.

In reality, I'd suggest you avoid both services and go for simpler choices. E.g.: fontsource.org for fonts, and maybe something like plausible if you really need analytics.

Re: Ask HN: GDPR in 2022 – What do I need to know as a solo founder?

#80
post #6

Got a relevant question myself: What bothers me the most for solo founders with GDPR is that you can't analyse individual user journeys without some kind of consent. I don't care who you are, but I care how you use my product so I can improve it. Aggregated / backend analytics will give me only the most basic insights. Am I right in that? Is it possible to work around that? I don't track to sell or analyse personal d…

What you're asking can't be done without tracking an individual in some way.

Imagine you have a physical store, and want to track which clients come back, what products they look at, and in which aisles they stop.

You could take their photo to recognise them when they come back, that's obviously not privacy-respecting at all.

What Google Analytics does is given them a badge with a unique id the first time they walk in, and expect that person to show that unique id on each subsequent visit. And also expect them to show that same badge on every other store (website) they visit. Even in places where they're registered (e.g.: GMail). It's inevitable that by tracking users like that you can eventually tie it to their real life identity, and also produce a really detailed record of all their activities.

This idea has become pretty common somehow: "I just want to see a single user's journey and don't care about who they are". But imagine how you'd do that on a physical store (including with clients that walk out and in again), and if there's ANY way that it wouldn't be super creepy to customers.

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