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Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

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Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#71

Post by klipt »

mcv wrote: post #41
mucio wrote: post #16

Move to Germany. Probably you had to move a bit earlier for you to enjoy the full parental leave here, but grandparents will be a great support. Do not worry much about the small village, actually use the opportunity (lower costs) to invest in your German (learn as much as you can with classes and talking with the people around you). Quality of life in Germany is much better than in the USA. Kita places are hard to f…

Yeah, the US sounds rather hostile to raising children, from everything I hear. Not just the school shootings, but also being unable to play outside, no biking to school, and the way politics seems eager to politicise everything about education there. I'd definitely pick Germany. Actually, I'd pick Netherland, because that's where kids are apparently the happiest in the world, but Germany sounds like a great alternat…

Is rural Germany friendly towards foreigners, especially non white ones?

I've heard in Germany (and Europe in general) you'll forever be a stranger, while America is more of a melting pot and immigrants are allowed to become Americans.

Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#73

Post by dom9301k »

If your wife's parents are located somehow in Germany near the Swiss border, consider to move to Switzerland or move to the border and be a frontier worker or a remote worker for a Siwss located company.

Top qualty of life and the highest salary in Europe.

https://www.glassdoor.com/research/app/uploads/sites/2/2016/...

Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#74

Post by peppertree »

eterpstra wrote: post #32

"My wife's parents would be a huge help with our kids. They're natural and eager grandparents and they're great with our daughter." This is absolutely priceless no matter where you live.

I would also consider what's lined up in California. If at least one of you have an offer lined up at FAANG then go for it. Otherwise working remote in Germany is a better bet.

Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#75

Post by incrudible »

pharmakom wrote: post #68
scandox wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The aging population in this case are literally offering him free childcare. Bit of quid pro quo wouldn't hurt?

Well it’s a trade-off that must be considered. The whole eurozone will have to tackle this issue as the number of retirees grows whilst the number of workers shrinks. The USA doesn’t have this problem so much. I don’t see how it can end without substantially higher taxes for anyone of working age.

Exactly this. Europe is a gerontocracy. The worst part, full retirement of the baby boomer generation, has yet to unfold. Elderly care is already in crisis mode. Moreover, the generation now entering the workforce is even smaller than the one preceding it. Add to this the expensive political delusions about how to best fight climate change.

Perhaps Germany is economically strong enough to stomach it, but in general moving to Western Europe is like boarding the Titanic. It is a beautiful ship, but the journey does not have a happy end.

Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#76

Post by foxyv »

I just moved out of California because nothing I could make as a SWE would allow me to achieve my goal of owning a home there. When I left, home values for cheap junk real estate 30 miles from the nearest employer was pushing $350,000. Now they are half a million. Then in addition to that, the cost of living was nuts for stuff like food, gasoline, electricity, water, road tolls, bus fares, train tickets, sales tax, and state income tax.

The worst part of California is you pay the taxes of a European country without the European features. The middle class healthcare is abysmal. The roads are car centric and poorly maintained. What little pedestrian and cycle infrastructure mostly goes nowhere. There is very little public transit and what they have is infrequent and runs for limited times. The schools outside the most affluent areas are HORRIBLE. Child care is insanely expensive. The colleges are over subscribed and over priced. Traffic is terrifyingly bad.

There are some REALLY great parts about California though. The area is super diverse population wise so you can meet cool people. State parks are awesome. Beaches are great. Skiing and mountain biking are great. Tons of excellent national parks. Cheap but amazing wine. Extremely good food available all over the place from almost every country on earth. Great entertainment options. Concerts, music festivals, outdoor screenings, and musicals abound.

Edit: Just checked again and the area I was looking at originally is now around $600,000 to $700,000 for a 3BR 2BA. Yeesh!

Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#77

Post by Tarsul »

I really wonder how this thread would've fared if you had posted it at a different time. Because you posted it in the afternoon in Europe, so you probably received more attention from Europeans.

However, as a German myself I'd agree with most of the other posters. Your (presumably) high US salary isn't everything (especially considering the high costs of eduction, health care, housing etc. in the US). Salaries in Germany are very good compared to other European countries (comparable to Netherlands), you can live a great life there. Probably not FIRE, but o well... (also think about how the world might look in 20 years wrt climate change)

You posted that your wife has a split opinion of Germany, that Germans aren't necessarily the most welcoming (friendly yes, but it often isn't easy to become friends in Germany). That's why you should really look at least for a region/city that has a little higher population so that you can find people with whom you share hobbies. That would make it much easier to get similar-minded friends.

And similar to what another poster said: There's nothing greater than letting your kids bike to school.

Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#79

Post by tjansen »

klipt wrote: post #71
mcv wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the US sounds rather hostile to raising children, from everything I hear. Not just the school shootings, but also being unable to play outside, no biking to school, and the way politics seems eager to politicise everything about education there. I'd definitely pick Germany. Actually, I'd pick Netherland, because that's where kids are apparently the happiest in the world, but Germany sounds like a great alternat…

Is rural Germany friendly towards foreigners, especially non white ones? I've heard in Germany (and Europe in general) you'll forever be a stranger, while America is more of a melting pot and immigrants are allowed to become Americans.

No experience of my own, as I am German, but there are idiots everywhere, including Germany. Before I start, I let me emphasize that I do not condone what I am going to describe, I am just describing it from my perspective.

I think it's more important how you dress than the color of your skin. If you dress in your home country's traditional clothes, you will probably experience more hostility than when you are wearing western clothes. The color of your skin will also be a factor, certainly more so than in the US, but usually hostility is based on your assumed (based on your looks) religion and values than the actual skin color. In the end, people are tribal, in rural Germany more so than in cities, and whether they accept you and how they treat you depends on whether they can relate to you.

I think language is the main factor why immigrants often will be strangers forever. Your social circle will be very limited if you don't speak German near-perfectly. But I would assume the same in the US if you don't speak English very well, and even then it's very difficult. At least that's what I have heard from Germans who moved to the US.

In bigger cities there are usually local expat communities where English is spoken, but you won't find many in rural Germany (unless you are close to a US military base or similar things). I think the best way to find them is on Facebook.

Re: Ask HN: Should I move to California or Germany as a SWE with 2 small kids?

#80

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

drstewart wrote: post #55
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not seeing any grievances or frustrations being aired here, just mostly positive things about living in Germany.

Ah, true. Comments like: >California is a smoldering shell of corruption and handouts to buy votes from various demographics. Definitely are just positive things about living in Germany and not airing of grievances by frustrated Americans.

You are right, there's a negative comment about California. Maybe even two, in the entire thread.

How does your original point about bias, sampling and people with grievances flocking to this thread stand up?

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