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Ask HN: Why are there so few fanless laptops with Intel/AMD?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few fanless laptops with Intel/AMD?

#71

Post by Redoubts »

traceroute66 wrote: post #13

I think most of it is the clue in the name .... laptop. If we move for a minute beyond the direct "hard" technical constraints which have already been expressed here (i.e. small chassis, lots of chips etc.). You have a second aspect, the old PBCAK (Problem Between Chair And Keyboard) one. Users will use their laptops in less than optimal (from a thermal perspective) ways. They will use it on their laps. They will use…

Meh, the older 12” MacBook (not pro, not air) was also fanless. I miss that 2 lbs design quite a bit.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few fanless laptops with Intel/AMD?

#73

Post by gehsty »

The chips run too hot under normal workloads to not have a fan. Not having a fan would reduce performance and make it not worth the additional cost for the ‘faster’ chip.

My opinion is intel/amd are not incentivised to make silent / fanless designs as they are hard to market as they are not going to be the fastest. Apple are incentivised as a silent cool running computer is something people will buy.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few fanless laptops with Intel/AMD?

#74

Post by fauigerzigerk »

thrdbndndn wrote: post #28

In addition to what everyone else have already said: having a fan is hardly a disadvantage for most of customers. So the demand isn't high.

"Hot and noisy" is the most frequent complaint I hear about laptops (also previously about Intel MacBooks). I think OEMs are either misreading the market or they are forced to emphasise other strengths because they can no longer compete with Apple in terms of performance/watt.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few fanless laptops with Intel/AMD?

#75

Post by heelix »

Consider water cooling, if it is a desktop system. I've got a radiator/pump I intend to use for the next gen threadripper when it shows up. A 5950x, at stock speeds, runs without any fans needed. The heat dissipation with the large radiator is enough where the fans won't need to switch on. Combined this with a power supply video card that throttles the fan when not needed, it is absolutely silent. This was a real shocker to me how quiet my office got when my workstations were cut over to open loop systems.

My i9 mac just makes me angry, every time docker spins up. Stuck with it for a few more years as we start going into the office.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few fanless laptops with Intel/AMD?

#76

Post by tjoff »

It is possible, but most often not desirable.

I think most surface pro lineups had the i5 being fanless and the i7 with a fan. And that was a problem, because although the performance difference between the i5 and the i7 wasn't that great (most would not pay for the difference) the cooling differences made it night and day. And as someone who loves passive cooling I was forced to recommend the i7 just because it had a fan. (note: in latest lineup of the surface pro the i5 also has a fan, making the i5 version much more attractive for most (though now it cost as much as the i7 used to do ...))

There is a huge difference in cooling between passive and a very very slight breeze, intel/amd CPUs are a bit too hungry for it to make much sense in the medium-to-high performance CPUs. Though I feel not enough attention is being put into cooling of laptops (passive nor active), isn't a strong selling point I guess (though it should!).

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few fanless laptops with Intel/AMD?

#78

Post by Gorgo »

replygirl wrote: post #65
Gorgo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The base of the laptop is the part of the machine being put on the lap/blanket/pillow/duvet while the lid sticks up in the air. A solution would be to put either the radiator (hard) or heat-producing hardware (easier) in the lid (with some insulation between the hot parts and the screen), making it a bit thicker and with that more stable. This also keeps the heat away from the battery which should make it last longer…

oh no, it keeps falling over!

Aluminium and magnesium are quite light so that should not be a problem - especially not if the space previously taken up by those hot parts is filled by using a larger battery. The think may weigh 2kg instead of 1.5kg and it may be a few mm thicker. It also should have fewer problems in getting rid of heat (which translates to better performance) and the autonomy should be significantly increased due to that larger battery. I'd choose increased autonomy and performance over a lighter and thinner laptop any time.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few fanless laptops with Intel/AMD?

#79

Post by sys_64738 »

The problem is that Intel is really sluggish without the Turbo Boost feature. You see this with Intel Mac laptops if you disable TB or you have low battery power and the system disables it. It becomes real sluggish. When Intel needs a little horse power to do anything then it heats up dramatically and this is its Achilles heel in that the ARM based Macs don't heat up at all during that initial burst of speed which probably doesn't last very long. But even on sustained throughput the heat generated by the ARM chip is very low due to using such little power.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there so few fanless laptops with Intel/AMD?

#80

Post by fmajid »

pstadler wrote: post #53
microtonal wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mind was still on the old pre-M1 Air which did have a fan IIRC. And the fan on the Intel Air was loud and the CPU performance not great :(. The Intel Air and the M1 Air are like night and day. Even though I have the 14" Pro now, IMO the MacBook Air M1 is the most revolutionary Mac of the past decade, if not more.

Used an MBA M1 for a year before switching to a MBP 14" M1 Pro. The MBA is the best laptop I‘ve ever had. Fanless, light, insane battery life, always cool and blazingly fast. No noticeable difference between the M1 (8/7 16GB) vs. M1 Pro (10/14 32GB) in daily use, although I don’t usually depend on long running processes going full throttle. I believe the entry-level MBA is the best laptop you can buy when it comes to…

If anything the M1 MBA is too cool, it freezes my lap off. Intel’s done a heroic job of maximizing performance on x86 but you’ve got to pay the price for the inefficiency of its legacy CISC architecture and power efficiency and thermals is it.
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